--Psalms 51:5
Posted on 09/26/2004 10:53:56 AM PDT by daybreakcoming
I have a question about something that has rocked me to my Baptist core. I am also going to address the question to our pastor next week. My eight-year old brought home a study guide for parents to assist us in the "nuturing the faith of your child". It states: "Children are sinners and the implications are eternal" - "Our children are helpless sinners who deserve God's wrath".
Whatever happened to "Except ye be converted, and BECOME AS LITTLE CHILDREN, ye shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven" (Matthew 18:3 ). And. "Suffer the little children to come unto Me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God" (Mark 10:13-14).
How are children who die, say at the age of four, covered? Are they doomed to God's wrath?
There is the "age of accountability." For each child, from what I understand, this is different.
For instance, I understood at the age of 7 that I was a "sinner" & became saved. I was raised in a Christian home, knew right from wrong & I knew where I'd end up if I didn't get right with God. Can't say I've been perfect or anything.
OTOH, some children may not comprehend spiritual matters. The child's conscience & understanding is what determines when they know they need God. It is said though, that most people become Christians & stay Christians, if they have been "saved" at a young age.
I would use an approach different than the big word SIN. Doing wrong is what a child understands...disobedience they understand.
First of all where in world are your children going to get such a papar, move them now!
Secondly, children are born into sin (not understanding sin yet), they are protected of God until age of accountability. Which is debatable (some say age 11 or 12, some earlier), near age of Jewish Barmitsva or Catechism for Catholics, and if anything happens to them they are under God's holy protection. He begins to deal with them around the age of accountability( developing a conscience), when they begin to know that what they are doing is very wrong.
Anyone who condemns them at an early age, is terribly mislead. There should never be condemnation of children. YOu are right, when you say come as a little child, it is speaking of innocent of knowledge of wrongdoing....but in faith believing.
I have two grandchildren, one was baptized at age 8 and accepted Christ two years before at age 6. I have just baptized the younger one at age 7...but he accepted Jesus at age 4. He needed more time to understand what it meant, as at age 4 they are just doing it to please parent, brother or grandparent...they have no real understanding of right and wrong of sin. I believe in helping them find faith early and get them baptised, if you have to do it yourself, providing you are a christian yourself. It is a protection for them as they grow older and a covering, much like being dedicated to Lord which can be done at same time as baptism. It will draw them back later if they stray from faith.
God never uses condemnation, that is of devil...wherever your grandchild got that paper will hurt them more than help them with that attitude. If it is daycare, find another one...they have just become religious bondage and will stress all the negatives instead of positives of God's kingdom. God is first and foremost LOVE, MERCY, FORGIVENESS AND RESTORATION, he minors in judgment, wrath and destroying the evil from among us.
"How are children who die, say at the age of four, covered? Are they doomed to God's wrath?"
Nope. God said only those that reject the Holy Spirit are subject to that.
Okay. I keep hearing of this "age of accountablity," yet I've never run across that in the Bible.
Where is it, exactly?
Interestingly, the abstract belief in the Sinful Nature of All Mankind is behind the difference between the hard-headed conservative and the dangerously utopian liberal. If you believe that man is basicaly wicked, you're less likely to indulge in fantasies of hubris that result in holocausts. The believer in Sinful Man is more likely to take a keen interest in maintaining the rule of law and preserving the freedom of the virtuous (those who obey law and moral precepts, not "good") citizen.
Even very young children can be severe moralists. Many times, they are harsher in their judgements than an adult would be. When they start to know right from wrong, and understand responsibility, understand "I'm sorry"--they have entered into "accountability."
My daughter has severe asthma.
She is thirteen years old.
I was talking about this to a Baptist "Christian", who told me that my daughter would be cured if she went to her church and renounced her sinful lifestyle.
We're Catholic....but just for kicks, I told her that since we were Wiccan, we were going into the woods to ask Mother Earth for assisitance...
There are two reasonable scriptures in the header of this thread. The problem of the age of accountability is one of Catholic/Protestant dispute. Many Protestants baptize infants, Baptists have a problem with that because of the inability of an infant to make a reasonable decision.
That is bizarre. (the "sinful lifestyle" comment, that is) LOL What was the response after your Wiccan confession?
"suffer the little children to come unto me, for of such is the kingdom of heaven." Jesus, the Son of God.
Jesus got it right. Everyone else, is just expressing their opinions. No matter how many letters you add to their name. M.Div. Ph.D. Rev. of Fr., "master of the universe" TRUMPS doctrinal pablum.
If Jesus got it wrong, we are all in deep doo doo...
One thing I believe Catholics AND Baptists agree on is that baptism is necessary for salvation...age is where they vary.
Catholics baptize infants. SOME Protestant churches baptize infants, some don't. I didn't think the "age of accountability" had anything to do with baptism.
In practical terms, I take this to mean we are all born with the biological urge to mate without restraint, and to hurt our neighbor out of selfishness. Those are childish behaviors that must be purged. Naturally, today's kids don't grow up like animals, but thousands of years ago it was a matter of survival, and hence the biblical context seems to fit with such ideas of growth, moral development, and human behavior.
Exo 30:11-14
11And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
12When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number, then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the LORD, when thou numberest them; that there be no plague among them, when thou numberest them....
...14 Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD.
Exo 14:29-30
29 Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me,
30 Doubtless ye shall not come into the land, concerning which I sware to make you dwell therein, save Caleb the son of Jephunneh, and Joshua the son of Nun.
And refering to David and Bathsheba's son who God took to heaven shortly after his birth. David is looking forward to meeting his son in heaven in the future.
2 Sam 12:23
23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me.
God is longsuffering, becoming twenty years old appears to be a landmark age n the scripture. Do a search on twenty to see how many references there are regarding that age.
I don't envision an 8 year-old falling into the category of little child. 3 or 4 maybe, but 8 is definitely an age where reason exists.
I'm Catholic and made my first Confession at that age, and I can tell you that I had lied, and stolen, if I remember correctly, unleashed my sharp and merciless tongue on my Mother, and I knew all of those things were wrong.
Maybe you have a really good child, so perhaps my input isn't that valuable, but at 8 years old, I knew exactly what I was doing, and had a 'I didn't do it', and if that failed, 'it wasn't my fault' rationale all worked out.
The one great thing about my Blessed Nuns and my Blessed Parents is that they refused to allow me to lie to myself, so eventually I had to face my baseness.
Your Baptist friend should go pray to the LORD herself and repent of her own sinful and erroneous beliefs.
ping
I don't know what happens to children who die. But we also know that Scripture teaches that the children of believers are rightous.
Age of accountability tends to flow from doctrinal studies from the book of Romans. It also varies considerably between different denominations because of those doctrinal associations.
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