"More Catholic Than the Pope" — New Book Responds to Arguments Raised by Extreme Traditionalists

Envoy Encore Weblog ^ | 07-30-04 | Patrick Madrid

[Patrick Madrid]

Catholic canon lawyer Peter Vere and I have co-authored a new book critiquing the claims and controversies of extreme traditionalism that will come out in September, published by Our Sunday Visitor Publishing.

Written in a popular and accessible style, More Catholic Than the Pope provides a detailed analysis of and response to common arguments raised by extreme traditionalist Catholics (in particular, adherents of the Society of St. Pius X) against the Second Vatican Council, Pope John Paul II, the fact that the late Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre committed a schismatic act by illicitly ordaining four bishops in 1988, and more. Chapters include a history of the SSPX, a background on the controversy between the SSPX and the so-called "Conciliar Church," and answers to several standard canon-law and historical arguments often raised by extreme traditionalists.

Our hope is that, by God's grace, the evidence presented in this new 224-page book will inform, encourage, and strengthen Catholics who have been shaken or confused by the misguided arguments raised against the Catholic Church by some extreme traditionalists and, with regard to those who have adopted a schismatic mindset, that this book will help them recognize the errors of extreme traditionalist groups, help them to see why they should abandon those errors, and help them come home to the Catholic Church.

Additional details on More Catholic Than the Pope will be available soon at Envoy Encore weblog.

[Lady In Blue]

Thank you Mr Madrid. I will certainly be looking forward to seeing your book. There's a lady in my parish who sells "Truly Roman Catholic Books"(yes,that's really the name of her bookstore)twice a month on Sundays after Mass.I'm sure that she will be selling the book.I hope someday you'll write a book on the E.O.Church.

[NYer]

His girlfriend had the abortion when the two of them were satanists, not a part of any Church.

You're not exempted from this either. If you make a slanderous accusation or state a "fact", provide a link to an independent 3rd party web site. LOTI was unable to do so but continues to post this pretentious lie throughout this thread. Where's the evidence?!

How christian of all of you to bring false judgement on someone without evidence.

[M007]

the problem is that the shepherds do nothing or are encouraging heresy and liturgical destruction while the sheep either gladly participate in it all, tolerate it, dig their heads in the sand, or simply don't care. That's the problem.

That may be true but I can't believe that the SSPX communicants would give away their birthright as Roman Catholics, connected with Rome and the Power of the Keys, just because they were offended by the fact that some homosexuals and liberals forced their way into the Church.

Its just sad.

[pascendi]

"Our hope is that, by God's grace, the evidence presented in this new 224-page book will inform, encourage, and strengthen Catholics who have been shaken or confused by the misguided arguments raised against the Catholic Church by some extreme traditionalists and, with regard to those who have adopted a schismatic mindset, that this book will help them recognize the errors of extreme traditionalist groups, help them to see why they should abandon those errors, and help them come home to the Catholic Church. make a lot of money, make us more popular, and mask the rotting stench of modernism we're so in denial of, and then go on another cruise."

[Land of the Irish]

LOTI was unable to do so but continues to post this pretentious lie throughout this thread. Where's the evidence?!

What do you want?

Do you want me to deliver a placenta, with DNA analysis, to your front doorstep?

[pascendi]

These people are aiding in the destruction, M007, because instead of focusing their knowledge and talent on the enemy, they turn and fire on their own kind.

They plot a middle course and in doing so, they play into the modernist's hands.

[NYer]

I could never leave the Holy See. I would not even go to church at all if I did not have the Pope and the Magisterium to lead and guide me.

From a letter written by the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, on the long term effects of attending mass at an SSPX chapel.

"While it is true that participation in the Mass at the chapels of the Society of St. Pius X does not of itself constitute "formal adherence to the schism", such adherence can come about over a period of time as one slowly imbibes a schismatic mentality which separates itself from the teaching of the Supreme Pontiff and the entire Catholic Church classically exemplified in A Rome and Econe Handbook which states in response to question 14 that the SSPX defends the traditional catechisms and therefore the Old Mass, and so attacks the Novus Ordo, the Second Vatican Council and the New Catechism, all of which more or less undermine our unchangeable Catholic faith.

It is precisely because of this schismatic mentality that this Pontifical Commission has consistently discouraged the faithful from attending Masses celebrated under the aegis of the Society of St. Pius X."

FULL TEXT

What you are witnessing on this thread is precisely the schismatic mentality, to which Msgr. Camille Perl is referring.

[pascendi]

It's true that if the sin was forgiven, it's been forgiven and that's that.

But sins against the Faith are even worse.

[Romulus]

The older one, after having been murdered by his own parents, is now a saint in Heaven.

Without having been baptised? Whatever happened to "extra ecclesia nulla salus"?

[TotusTuus]

"More Catholic Than the Pope"

Too funny. Don't know anybody like that. Certainly not on FR .... ;-)

Still trying to find some time to watch your show on EWTN. I got cable awhile back. Pay for but never have time to watch it ....

[dsc]

http://www.angelfire.com/ky/dodone/Hunt.html

[ksen]

St. Paul applauded the stoning of St. Stephen.

God saw fit to let us all know about it in the Scriptures. Should we pretend Vere's life before his conversion to Roman Catholocism never happened?

[Land of the Irish]

What you are witnessing on this thread is precisely the schismatic mentality

Yet, you have the gall to defend a "Catholic" journalist who aborted his own child.

[pascendi]

"What you are witnessing on this thread is precisely the schismatic mentality, to which Msgr. Camille Perl is referring."

You can blame the Novus Ordo and the Second Vatican Council for driving them into this position in the first place.

You can blame yourself every time you dig your head in the sand and every time you point your finger at the traditionalists instead of asking yourself what the real truth is behind what's wrong with the Church.

You can blame the prelates, virtually all of them, for betraying the Bride of Christ.

[stop_fascism]

I'm not sure what your point is about Paul. Jesus never said not to perform capital punishment. Not even when it was applied to himself. However, he did say not to worship Satan. I'm glad a former Satanist has found the church. I just don't think he should be a canon lawyer. I just don't trust lawyers. Luke 11:46, and all that.

[NYer]

What do you want?

In a court of law, any accusation must be substantiated. Here on FR, however, anyone can write a baseless screed. You call yourself a catholic. Act like one!

[Land of the Irish]

Whatever happened to "extra ecclesia nulla salus"?

Ever heard of baptism by blood?

[NYer]

Yet, you have the gall to defend a "Catholic" journalist who aborted his own child.

Again with the slander! Where's your proof? The burden of proof is on you!

[NYer]

Should we pretend Vere's life before his conversion to Roman Catholocism never happened?

You should spend some time listening to the REAL AUDIO files at the following link. Many of these "converts" and "reverts", have come to the Catholic faith in stages; one began as an atheist, became an Evangelical and is now studying for the priesthood. Conversion comes from God - but then you already know that, as a practicing catholic. You're not more catholic than the pope, are you?

LINK

[ksen]

You're a jihadist, UR

That was uncalled for sinkspur.