Posted on 07/01/2004 3:14:45 PM PDT by narses
**rubbing eyes**
Are we there now? ;-)
Thanks for posting this!
There are plenty of popes and bishops in Dante's hell. It's pretty much traditional.
St. Augustine refused his friends' entreaties to become a bishop until they finally persuaded him, because he was reluctant to take on the enormous responsibility of a bishop: responsibility for the souls of all those under his care.
A bishop can't MAKE his people be virtuous, but he is obligated to do everything he can to teach and persuade them. If he is negligent in his duties he has much to answer for.
No, COD, there is a real hell much worse than earth.
There's a lot of information in this article, will need to re-read it later. Thanks
It is rather interesting that his Parish is one of the smallest ones in the Diocese. It is located "out in the country" in an area that I can't imagine more than 5% of the people are Catholic.
There are FReeper Catholics whom Hell might be empty. I wonder what they think of this article?
I can't wait to hear your comments. God Bless.
THANKS.
Will ping the TP list to this interesting post.
Blessings,
This article is just a minor bump in the road on their journey to sink the Church by sinking Catholic faith under their deadly pall of lavender liberal modernism.
Three thoughts:
***'I'm going to take you to Heaven. The Lord wants to meet you.'***
This is a very strange phrase. Didn't the Lord already know him?
***I saw God face to Face, and Jesus and Mary, so bright and illuminating.***
In the Bible, anyone who sees God fall down like they are dead - Even in the New Testament John fell at Jesus feet as dead. This seems far to blasé.
***'I need you. I want you to go back.***
God doesn't NEED anyone or anything. He commands and His servants either obey or disobey.
I don't know what to make of these things any more. Better not to put too much stock in them. No matter how well meaning, things like this can lead you astray.
I guess some red flags went up when I read "healing services." So many of those are of the charismatic variety where sacramental rules are not followed.
No one ever explained to me why we need healing services specifically when we have the sacrament for anointing. I'm all for getting together for prayer for healing, but so often people move in and start laying hands on everybody, and sometimes it gets a little scary, if you have your eyes open enough to get a little scared. More blind, desperate sheep following who knows what.
Yes, I am also suspicious "healing services". Several years ago I attended one at my Mother in Laws Parish. I saw people collapse when the Priest touched their forehead and others, like myself, were pretty much unaffected by it. The only reason I am attending this one is a story related to me by my friend, I’ll call him Bob, his dad, I’ll call him John, who runs the Bible Study at my Parish.
About four years ago John got Bob to agree to attend this Healing Mass. At the time Bob was a fallen away Catholic who hadn’t been to Mass in years. During the service they both had been “volunteered” to assist the Priest to catch anybody who might collapse during the service. Bob said many of the Parishioners did collapse and he couldn’t wait to get out of there. At the end of the service Father Maniyangat anointed both of them although Bob said he was very reluctant and didn’t believe in this stuff.
Well you guessed it, they both collapsed. When Bob came to he said he thought he was out only a few minutes. As it turns out it was about 20 minutes. He also said an incredible sense of peace came over him and he wasn’t sure what to make of it. To make a long story short, he returned to the Church and in his words, “ I am on fire with the word of God”. So his story is that of a Spiritual rather than physical healing.
So I figure at worst case I’ll have about a 100 mile round and burn some extra gas to fulfill my Mass obligation. At best, there may be something here.
God Bless
I understand the skepticism however I prefer to think of it as following the advice of St. Paul who instructs us, ‘Test everything; hold fast to that which is good; abstain from every form of evil’ (1 Thes 5:20-21).
>>This is a very strange phrase. Didn't the Lord already know him? <<
Petronius, are you playing devil's advocate, or are you that suspicious of every word? To "meet" does not necessarily mean to "make the acquaintance of for the first time." I met my sister at the airport last month; doesn't mean I hadn't known her before then! Likewise, in Heaven, God is manifest in a very different way than he is in worth. In this context, what is almost certainly meant is "The Lord wants to see you presented before Him."
Now, this is all a vision. And I'm very careful to not take the experiences of mystics straight on, so I'm not saying you need to buy into this. But try not to interpret everything Catholics say in the most scandalous possible light, eh?
>>(people have bodies in hell but only his soul was there?)<<
They *will* have bodies in Hell, when the Resurrection of the Dead comes, but do they have bodies *now*? What bodies do people have in Hell? Their flesh lies rotting in the ground; Has Christ already made for them a new creation?
There is no denying that most people who fall under this spirit feel peace.
I had a very negative similar experience with it at the hands of a protestant minister who was the one who introduced Jessica Hahn (was it?) to Baker of PTL fame. Years later now I have looked him up on the internet and he was not of good character.
Later I went to a catholic healing mass after I became catholic and was shocked and traumatized by what I witnessed and experienced. I prayed to St. Michael to protect me and when I went up in the line, and was touched on the forehead by a priest who recently "got the power", I wasn't slain like almost everybody else was. I was confessing regularly at the time which may or may not have anything to do with anything.
My personal experience is meaningless to anyone trying to make sense of it and put it all into proper context theologically.
The catholics had none of this until they imported it from protestants; they seemed to have a built-in immunity initially according to accounts I've read about the early charismatic gatherings at Notre Dame. When they persisted, they finally got the power, too. Hence my suspicion.
One of the Medjugorje priests, Father Jozo Zovko, was into this, too. There was a dark side to his ministry and character according to accounts I read, but I can't remember what now, most of it was that he went off on his own in defiance of the local bishop of that place.
But who can argue with such a feeling of peace? I certainly can't.
I will never really know what to make of it, but I'm still suspicious.
Maybe I'm too hung up on rules. But then I think maybe the rules are there to protect us from being led astray by strange spirits. There are strange spirits in the church today though, no doubt about it. The bishops are permitting it. The only thing I'm left with is an inner need to protect my loved ones from falling under this particular power or I wouldn't even bother to think about it any more or talk about it. I wouldn't want my young grandkids going to one of these healing services and being slain in the spirit.
Maybe I just don't want that part of it to be true. We all seem to end up believing what we want to believe.
Aliska there are strange spirits everywhere. As I posted earlier, St. Paul gave us instructions on this.
I wouldn't want my young grandkids going to one of these healing services and being slain in the spirit.
OK
We all seem to end up believing what we want to believe.
All any of us can do is strive to stay in a state of grace and ask forgiveness when we fall.
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