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To: narses

Three thoughts:


***'I'm going to take you to Heaven. The Lord wants to meet you.'***

This is a very strange phrase. Didn't the Lord already know him?



***I saw God face to Face, and Jesus and Mary, so bright and illuminating.***

In the Bible, anyone who sees God fall down like they are dead - Even in the New Testament John fell at Jesus feet as dead. This seems far to blasé.



***'I need you. I want you to go back.***

God doesn't NEED anyone or anything. He commands and His servants either obey or disobey.


12 posted on 07/01/2004 8:21:20 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus
It would nice to believe some of these accounts, and St. Paul evidently had something similar and about which he was very humble, but I'm suspicious now. They are so subjective and seem to be tailored to one's particular belief system.

I don't know what to make of these things any more. Better not to put too much stock in them. No matter how well meaning, things like this can lead you astray.

I guess some red flags went up when I read "healing services." So many of those are of the charismatic variety where sacramental rules are not followed.

No one ever explained to me why we need healing services specifically when we have the sacrament for anointing. I'm all for getting together for prayer for healing, but so often people move in and start laying hands on everybody, and sometimes it gets a little scary, if you have your eyes open enough to get a little scared. More blind, desperate sheep following who knows what.

13 posted on 07/01/2004 8:36:49 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: PetroniusMaximus

>>This is a very strange phrase. Didn't the Lord already know him? <<

Petronius, are you playing devil's advocate, or are you that suspicious of every word? To "meet" does not necessarily mean to "make the acquaintance of for the first time." I met my sister at the airport last month; doesn't mean I hadn't known her before then! Likewise, in Heaven, God is manifest in a very different way than he is in worth. In this context, what is almost certainly meant is "The Lord wants to see you presented before Him."

Now, this is all a vision. And I'm very careful to not take the experiences of mystics straight on, so I'm not saying you need to buy into this. But try not to interpret everything Catholics say in the most scandalous possible light, eh?


17 posted on 07/02/2004 7:35:53 AM PDT by dangus
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To: PetroniusMaximus

Good analysis, Petronius. Trusting any visions or visionaries, let alone those of Modernists can be a danger to one's faith. Could this be another Medjugorie in Florida? To quote a few sources:


Deuteronomy: "Thou shalt not hear the words of that prophet or dreamer. For the Lord your God trieth you, that it may appear whether you love him with all your heart, and with all your soul, or not.... And that prophet or forger of dreams shall be slain: because he spoke to draw you away from the Lord your God" (Deuteronomy 13:3,5/DRV).

St. John of the Cross (1542-1591): "The desire for private revelations deprives faith of its purity, develops a dangerous curiosity that becomes a source of illusions, fills the mind with vain fancies, and often proves the want of humility, and of submission to Our Lord, Who, through His public revelation, has given all that is needed for salvation. We must suspect those apparitions that lack dignity or proper reserve, and above all, those that are ridiculous. This last characteristic is a mark of human or diabolical machination. STAY AWAY FROM VISIONS, APPARITIONS, AND MIRACLES AS MUCH AS YOU CAN. BE CAREFUL OF VISIONS, EVEN WHEN THEY ARE AUTHENTIC.

St. Vincent Ferrer: "The first remedy against spiritual temptations which the devil plants in the hearts of many persons in these unhappy times, is to have no desire to procure by prayer, meditation, or any other good work, what are called (private) revelations, or spiritual experiences, beyond what happens in the ordinary course of things; such a desire of things which surpass the common order can have no other root or foundation but pride, presumption, a vain curiosity in what regards the things of God, and in short, an exceedingly weak faith. It is to punish this evil desire that God abandons the soul, and permits it to fall into the illusions and temptations of the devil, who seduces it, and represents to it false visions and delusive revelations. Here we have the source of most of the spiritual temptations that prevail at the present time; temptations which the spirit of evil roots in the souls of those who may be called the precursors of Antichrist."

Pope St. Pius X 1913: "When anyone tells me about the extraordinary, I am the most incredulous man in the world..., but when holiness results from the practice of virtue..., I believe in it. Just this morning ... I was saying that long ago the devil manifested himself openly in the possessed whom he caused to suffer, and from whom he could be driven out only by exorcism. Now he has changed his method; he takes the appearance of sanctity and makes people believe in visions. He even gives to certain persons the knowledge of hidden things, so that they may appear to prophesy; sometimes he even simulates stigmata! But as for holiness expressed in the simple practice of virtue..., I believe in that. That is indeed holiness.... The way to sanctity is not difficult. It is a thorny road, but easy."


27 posted on 07/02/2004 10:46:58 AM PDT by corpus
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To: PetroniusMaximus

Good observations.

I don't discredit all claims of spiritual experience which may have been just as real as any bodily or thinking phenomenon, so his testimony may have some value. Discernment is required, though, so as not to give too much attention to deceiving spirits.


55 posted on 07/04/2004 7:17:33 PM PDT by Cvengr (;^))
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