Mass in Latin is back

Arizona Republic | June 5, 2004 | Michael Clancy

[NYer]

Mass in Latin is back

Phoenix church to hold service

Michael Clancy
The Arizona Republic
Jun. 5, 2004 12:00 AM

The Tridentine Mass, for 400 years the standard religious service of the Catholic Church, will be celebrated Sunday in Phoenix, possibly for the first time since the diocese was created in 1969.

Completely in Latin, except for the priest's sermon, Sunday's service at St. Thomas the Apostle Church in Phoenix will attempt to recreate the entire atmosphere of the old Mass, including candles, incense and altar boys - no girls.

			If you go What: Tridentine Mass, old version of Catholic religious service spoken and sung in Latin. When: 1 p.m. Sunday. Where: St. Thomas the Apostle, 2312 E. Campbell Ave., Phoenix. The differences The Catholic Mass, especially in its current form, resembles the services in Episcopalian, Lutheran and other churches. The Tridentine Mass, used as the official service of the Catholic Church from 1570 to 1970 and dating back 1,000 years or more before that, will barely be recognized by Catholics born after 1960. It features several obvious differences from the "New Order" Mass that took effect in 1970. Among them: • The priest normally enters with altar boys from the sacristy, to the side of the sanctuary. In the New Order Mass, the priest enters from the back of the church in a small procession. • Altar faces the church's back wall; much of Mass is said with celebrant's back to the congregation. In the New Order Mass, priest faces the congregation. • The language is Latin, with Mass guides, or missals, providing Latin and English on facing pages. Most churches say Mass entirely in English, Spanish or another language that will be easily understood by the congregation. • Lay people, especially women, have a minimized role as compared to the Mass said in most parishes. Women are expected to cover their heads. • Readings are done by the priest, not a lay lector. • The priest is assisted only by other males; none of the altar servers are girls. Currently, girls may serve in most parishes. • Communion is taken on tongue while kneeling, as opposed to receiving communion in the hand while standing. • Only the priest may distribute communion. Most churches now use specially trained lay people to assist in communion. • No "sign of peace," in which congregants share a handshake with those sitting nearby. For a full text of the Latin Mass, with a translation, go to: www.sacred-texts.com/chr/lmass/ord.htm

"It's a good thing for the diocese," said J. Richard Haefer, an assistant professor of music at Arizona State University. "It will heal a lot of wounds. A lot of people have wanted this for a long time."

Haefer, who specializes in both sacred and ethnic music, will lead the choir for the service. A longtime proponent of the Latin Mass, he says, "Those who love the Tridentine Mass do so for the beauty of it, the spirituality, the sacramentality. They love the mystery of the Mass."

But others, including some priests, privately, say the return of the Latin Mass is another nod to conservative elements in the church who want to turn the clock back.

The Tridentine Mass, built upon centuries of practice, formally was established after the Council of Trent in the 16th century. It was replaced with the "New Order" Mass in 1970. For 14 years, it was all but forgotten.

In 1984, Pope John Paul II permitted it under certain circumstances, but former Bishop Thomas J. O'Brien turned down several requests over the years. Bishop Thomas J. Olmsted announced in March that he would permit the Latin Mass to comply with the pope's wishes and to reach out to Catholics who prefer it.

It's not for everyone, as even the proponents acknowledge. Dennis Kavanaugh, an attorney who recently left the Mesa City Council, said lots of Catholics are concerned that the Latin Mass symbolizes a backward turn by the diocese.

"It's an example of a trend among some people to return to a more nostalgic time," he said. "They see the last 40 years as a perversion of Catholic teaching."

Michael Malone of Phoenix, whose family has attended Latin Masses for years in other cities, disputed the claim.

Acknowledging changes in the culture since 1970, he said, "Based on what I see, there is a yearning for tradition, even among young families. Looking to tradition is a fine thing to do in times of uncertainty. It may help people clarify where they ought to be going."

He added that the Latin Mass is just another option for Catholics who already can attend Mass in several languages.

"This diocese has had a wide diversity of Masses available, in Spanish, Polish, Vietnamese, even Tongan," he said. "The only one conspicuously absent is the Tridentine rite."

The services are substantially different. But the main difference is in the language.

"The difference of language lent an air of sacredness to the proceedings," said the Rev. Kieran Kleczewski, liaison for worship for the Phoenix Diocese.

"There is something special about this Mass," said Malone, who with his wife, Ann, is training 16 altar servers for the once-weekly service. "There is a clear sense that something sacred, mysterious and reverent is happening."

Malone said his family has been part of Latin Mass communities for several years, while they lived in Ireland and Boston.

"We have had an affinity for the traditional Mass (because of) its beauty and reverence," Malone said. "For us, it is the best representation of the unbloody sacrifice at Calvary, the best way to enjoy the graces of the Mass."

Malone, Kleczewski and Haefer all estimated attendance at Sunday's service at 200 to 400.

Kleczewski said he is certain that the first Mass could draw a bigger crowd just because people are curious. As to its long-term success, he is less sure.

"The whole culture has changed," he said, "so it will be interesting to see how this all plays out."

[NYer]

The following comment from someone who attended this mass, was posted to the new Catholic Answers Forum.

"I attended part of this with my son, N (age 3). We arrived on time, but ended up being late for lack of parking. All parking lots, including the Methodist parking lot next door, were full. Cars were lined up and down the road in every direction. We parked on a side street and walked half a mile to get in (105 degrees at 1pm).

Inside, it was standing room only on all sides of the church and some folks did not enter due to the crowd. Most women had their head covered with hats or with netlike coverings made available at the church. There was also a dress code for men (ie. shirts with collars).

Channel 5 News was filming a portion of it. Many older people, but also many young couples were present. Fifteen new altar boys were inducted --- quite a sight. The estimates in the article above of only 200-400 people are definitely on the low side!"

[franky]

***"It's an example of a trend among some people to return to a more nostalgic time," he said. "They see the last 40 years as a perversion of Catholic teaching."***

Truth does show its head once in awhile.

[NYer]

From

The Rev. Gregory Kotnis celebrates Mass on Sunday at St. Thomas the Apostle Catholic Church.

“It is nice to be in a Latin Mass again,” the Mesa woman said Sunday.

She had just attended one at St. Thomas the Apostle Catholic Church — the first Latin Mass authorized in the Roman Catholic Diocese of Phoenix since 1969. A standing-room-only crowd of more than 1,300 filled the church. Most were gray-haired Catholics coming to relive the old-time High Mass. Some parents brought their children. All came to hear Gregorian chants, take Holy

Communion on their tongues from the priest and try to follow the Latin-English missals handed out.

In the Latin Mass tradition, the presiding priest, the Rev. Gregory Kotnis, 73, spent most of the time facing the altar and not the people. He admitted after the two-hour service that “when you haven’t read it for 40 years, it is different,” and his unfamiliarity may have slowed it down.

Peggy Hughes and her 26-year-old daughter Chris, both of Chandler, came wearing lacy “mantillas,” or veils, on their heads. Hughes said she wanted her daughter to experience the kind of Mass she knew in the 1960s in her Chicago parish.

“It brought back memories for me growing up in the Midwest with this exact type of Mass.”

As for her daughter: “It was very different, because I have grown up with the English-speaking Mass,” Chris Hughes said. “It was neat to see how things used to be before the changes, and how it was for my mom and her family.”

Rick Severs of Scottsdale left the Mass with a group of friends, heading to a late lunch to analyze what they had just experienced. “It was very nostalgic and like a lot of us remember,” he said. “It was a beautiful ceremony, there is no question about it. The Latin Mass, the songs and all that were great.”

All three, however, said that they prefer the sweeping changes to Catholic worship made decades ago by the Second Vatican Council. Those changes included conducting Mass in the people’s languages instead of Latin, and priests interacting more with the people during Mass.

In 1984, Pope John Paul II gave permission to bishops to offer the traditional Latin Mass again, using the 1962 Catholic missal. Despite appeals from Catholic groups to initiate the Mass in this diocese, none was started under diocesan sanction. Several priests, outside of diocesan authority, have been conducting Latin Masses in several churches in the Valley. Not long after Bishop Thomas J. Olmsted was installed in December 2003, he authorized the Diocesan Office of Worship to add the Latin Mass as another worship option and perhaps bring back Catholics who had resented how Vatican II had altered the Mass they knew.

Kotnis, a retired priest and one of six senior priests in the diocese skilled enough in Latin to lead Latin Masses, said he doesn't expect the same kind of large turnout in subsequent weeks, “but it still will be many.” Latin Masses are 1 p.m. Sundays at St. Thomas the Apostle, 2312 E. Campbell Ave., Phoenix.

[NYer]

Wait .... you may have spoken too soon.

All three, however, said that they prefer the sweeping changes to Catholic worship made decades ago by the Second Vatican Council. Those changes included conducting Mass in the people’s languages instead of Latin, and priests interacting more with the people during Mass.

Guess that means there will be more parking spots available next Sunday ;-D.

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

What's your handle at Catholic Answers?

[sinkspur]

All three, however, said that they prefer the sweeping changes to Catholic worship made decades ago by the Second Vatican Council. Those changes included conducting Mass in the people’s languages instead of Latin, and priests interacting more with the people during Mass.

IOW, this 1300 will shrink down to the 200 or so, just like we have in our diocese.

[RFT1]

1PM is a little late in terms of start time for the mass, but that is the way it was in Sacramento for about 10 years when the Indult was first introduced in 98 untill the FSSP was invited in. It will not be easy to build up stable attendence, but it can be done, one family at a time.

[Arguss]

"IOW, this 1300 will shrink down to the 200 or so, just like we have in our diocese."

It does take getting used to. That's about how many we have also in a city about the same size as Phoenix, I think. (Syracuse)

There are good reasons to prefer the Tridentine Mass, but one in particular should make non-theologians make the effort to attend.

There is almost no chance of invention at the Mass. Those who drive all over the Diocese looking for a reverent Mass, can stop right here.

Even in a no frills Tridentine, everything goes by the Book. That's all a lot of people ask for. You don't have to understand all the nuances, just know that they are covered.

But some other people feel that they are inadequate, and that there should be more to it, after 40 years of being involved.

[m4629]

Good article. Thanks.

The Tridentine Mass will mean busy-body women will be booted out of the sanctuary immediately, while sanctity and sanity restored. The feminazis won't have any part of that.

[sinkspur]

But some other people feel that they are inadequate, and that there should be more to it, after 40 years of being involved.

Pius XII had approved the "Dialogue Mass" in 1955. Even he recognized the need for more participation by the faithful.

I am very libertarian on worship, meaning that those who want a Tridentine Mass should be provided for, just as Tongans, and Hispanics, and Vietnamese are provided for.

I'm one of those who would feel that a Tridentine low mass is inadequate.

[Victoria Delsoul]

Inside, it was standing room only on all sides of the church and some folks did not enter due to the crowd. Most women had their head covered with hats or with netlike coverings made available at the church. There was also a dress code for men (ie. shirts with collars).

Thanks for your input. A mass in Latin is like a small miracle.

[NYer]

What's your handle at Catholic Answers?

Like you, I kept my FR name (lol ... saw one of your posts there today).

[NYer]

There is almost no chance of invention at the Mass. Those who drive all over the Diocese looking for a reverent Mass, can stop right here.

That is reason alone! Enough with the changes.

[VermiciousKnid]

The people of Phoenix are lucky indeed. I am insanely jealous of them.

Sadly, the Latin Mass is unavailable to me because of the intractability of our bishop.

Regards,

[NYer]

Sadly, the Latin Mass is unavailable to me because of the intractability of our bishop.

Have you tried one of the Eastern Rite Catholic liturgies? Remember that Christ was a Jew. Christianity was 'born' in the East, not the West.

[Snuffington]

It's not for everyone, as even the proponents acknowledge.

Actually it is. That's what scares the anti-Tridentine folks. And, judging by the tone of this article, it scares the heck out of this writer as well.

Marginalize!! Make people who like this seem like a remote fringe!!! Weirdos!!!

Heh, heh. The thing will speak for itself. If the bishop truly allows it to flourish, the result will dismay those oh-so-modern Novus Ordite fanatics. Especially since their greying ranks are having a little more trouble convincing others that they represent a springtime, instead of a winter for the faith.

[VermiciousKnid]

In fact, there is a Byzantine RC Church closer to my house even than my own parish. I will have to stop in there some Sunday, though in all honesty, I wish it hadn't come to this.

And yes, I know that it is perfectly legitimate for Latin (hah! Don't I wish!) Rite Catholics to attend Byzantine Rite services.

Regards,

[sinkspur]

It's not for everyone, as even the proponents acknowledge.

Actually it is. That's what scares the anti-Tridentine folks.

Actually, it's not. 98% of Catholics who attend Mass WOULD NOT attend a Tridentine Mass.

And, it's not just grayheads who prefer the Novus Ordo, Snuffington.

You know that.