Mass in Latin is back

Arizona Republic | June 5, 2004 | Michael Clancy

[NYer]

The following comment from someone who attended this mass, was posted to the new Catholic Answers Forum.

"I attended part of this with my son, N (age 3). We arrived on time, but ended up being late for lack of parking. All parking lots, including the Methodist parking lot next door, were full. Cars were lined up and down the road in every direction. We parked on a side street and walked half a mile to get in (105 degrees at 1pm).

Inside, it was standing room only on all sides of the church and some folks did not enter due to the crowd. Most women had their head covered with hats or with netlike coverings made available at the church. There was also a dress code for men (ie. shirts with collars).

Channel 5 News was filming a portion of it. Many older people, but also many young couples were present. Fifteen new altar boys were inducted --- quite a sight. The estimates in the article above of only 200-400 people are definitely on the low side!"

[franky]

***"It's an example of a trend among some people to return to a more nostalgic time," he said. "They see the last 40 years as a perversion of Catholic teaching."***

Truth does show its head once in awhile.

[NYer]

From

The Rev. Gregory Kotnis celebrates Mass on Sunday at St. Thomas the Apostle Catholic Church.

“It is nice to be in a Latin Mass again,” the Mesa woman said Sunday.

She had just attended one at St. Thomas the Apostle Catholic Church — the first Latin Mass authorized in the Roman Catholic Diocese of Phoenix since 1969. A standing-room-only crowd of more than 1,300 filled the church. Most were gray-haired Catholics coming to relive the old-time High Mass. Some parents brought their children. All came to hear Gregorian chants, take Holy

Communion on their tongues from the priest and try to follow the Latin-English missals handed out.

In the Latin Mass tradition, the presiding priest, the Rev. Gregory Kotnis, 73, spent most of the time facing the altar and not the people. He admitted after the two-hour service that “when you haven’t read it for 40 years, it is different,” and his unfamiliarity may have slowed it down.

Peggy Hughes and her 26-year-old daughter Chris, both of Chandler, came wearing lacy “mantillas,” or veils, on their heads. Hughes said she wanted her daughter to experience the kind of Mass she knew in the 1960s in her Chicago parish.

“It brought back memories for me growing up in the Midwest with this exact type of Mass.”

As for her daughter: “It was very different, because I have grown up with the English-speaking Mass,” Chris Hughes said. “It was neat to see how things used to be before the changes, and how it was for my mom and her family.”

Rick Severs of Scottsdale left the Mass with a group of friends, heading to a late lunch to analyze what they had just experienced. “It was very nostalgic and like a lot of us remember,” he said. “It was a beautiful ceremony, there is no question about it. The Latin Mass, the songs and all that were great.”

All three, however, said that they prefer the sweeping changes to Catholic worship made decades ago by the Second Vatican Council. Those changes included conducting Mass in the people’s languages instead of Latin, and priests interacting more with the people during Mass.

In 1984, Pope John Paul II gave permission to bishops to offer the traditional Latin Mass again, using the 1962 Catholic missal. Despite appeals from Catholic groups to initiate the Mass in this diocese, none was started under diocesan sanction. Several priests, outside of diocesan authority, have been conducting Latin Masses in several churches in the Valley. Not long after Bishop Thomas J. Olmsted was installed in December 2003, he authorized the Diocesan Office of Worship to add the Latin Mass as another worship option and perhaps bring back Catholics who had resented how Vatican II had altered the Mass they knew.

Kotnis, a retired priest and one of six senior priests in the diocese skilled enough in Latin to lead Latin Masses, said he doesn't expect the same kind of large turnout in subsequent weeks, “but it still will be many.” Latin Masses are 1 p.m. Sundays at St. Thomas the Apostle, 2312 E. Campbell Ave., Phoenix.

[NYer]

Wait .... you may have spoken too soon.

All three, however, said that they prefer the sweeping changes to Catholic worship made decades ago by the Second Vatican Council. Those changes included conducting Mass in the people’s languages instead of Latin, and priests interacting more with the people during Mass.

Guess that means there will be more parking spots available next Sunday ;-D.

[StAthanasiustheGreat]

What's your handle at Catholic Answers?

[sinkspur]

All three, however, said that they prefer the sweeping changes to Catholic worship made decades ago by the Second Vatican Council. Those changes included conducting Mass in the people’s languages instead of Latin, and priests interacting more with the people during Mass.

IOW, this 1300 will shrink down to the 200 or so, just like we have in our diocese.

[RFT1]

1PM is a little late in terms of start time for the mass, but that is the way it was in Sacramento for about 10 years when the Indult was first introduced in 98 untill the FSSP was invited in. It will not be easy to build up stable attendence, but it can be done, one family at a time.

[Arguss]

"IOW, this 1300 will shrink down to the 200 or so, just like we have in our diocese."

It does take getting used to. That's about how many we have also in a city about the same size as Phoenix, I think. (Syracuse)

There are good reasons to prefer the Tridentine Mass, but one in particular should make non-theologians make the effort to attend.

There is almost no chance of invention at the Mass. Those who drive all over the Diocese looking for a reverent Mass, can stop right here.

Even in a no frills Tridentine, everything goes by the Book. That's all a lot of people ask for. You don't have to understand all the nuances, just know that they are covered.

But some other people feel that they are inadequate, and that there should be more to it, after 40 years of being involved.

[m4629]

Good article. Thanks.

The Tridentine Mass will mean busy-body women will be booted out of the sanctuary immediately, while sanctity and sanity restored. The feminazis won't have any part of that.

[sinkspur]

But some other people feel that they are inadequate, and that there should be more to it, after 40 years of being involved.

Pius XII had approved the "Dialogue Mass" in 1955. Even he recognized the need for more participation by the faithful.

I am very libertarian on worship, meaning that those who want a Tridentine Mass should be provided for, just as Tongans, and Hispanics, and Vietnamese are provided for.

I'm one of those who would feel that a Tridentine low mass is inadequate.

[Victoria Delsoul]

Inside, it was standing room only on all sides of the church and some folks did not enter due to the crowd. Most women had their head covered with hats or with netlike coverings made available at the church. There was also a dress code for men (ie. shirts with collars).

Thanks for your input. A mass in Latin is like a small miracle.

[NYer]

What's your handle at Catholic Answers?

Like you, I kept my FR name (lol ... saw one of your posts there today).

[NYer]

There is almost no chance of invention at the Mass. Those who drive all over the Diocese looking for a reverent Mass, can stop right here.

That is reason alone! Enough with the changes.

[VermiciousKnid]

The people of Phoenix are lucky indeed. I am insanely jealous of them.

Sadly, the Latin Mass is unavailable to me because of the intractability of our bishop.

Regards,

[NYer]

Sadly, the Latin Mass is unavailable to me because of the intractability of our bishop.

Have you tried one of the Eastern Rite Catholic liturgies? Remember that Christ was a Jew. Christianity was 'born' in the East, not the West.

[Snuffington]

It's not for everyone, as even the proponents acknowledge.

Actually it is. That's what scares the anti-Tridentine folks. And, judging by the tone of this article, it scares the heck out of this writer as well.

Marginalize!! Make people who like this seem like a remote fringe!!! Weirdos!!!

Heh, heh. The thing will speak for itself. If the bishop truly allows it to flourish, the result will dismay those oh-so-modern Novus Ordite fanatics. Especially since their greying ranks are having a little more trouble convincing others that they represent a springtime, instead of a winter for the faith.

[VermiciousKnid]

In fact, there is a Byzantine RC Church closer to my house even than my own parish. I will have to stop in there some Sunday, though in all honesty, I wish it hadn't come to this.

And yes, I know that it is perfectly legitimate for Latin (hah! Don't I wish!) Rite Catholics to attend Byzantine Rite services.

Regards,

[sinkspur]

It's not for everyone, as even the proponents acknowledge.

Actually it is. That's what scares the anti-Tridentine folks.

Actually, it's not. 98% of Catholics who attend Mass WOULD NOT attend a Tridentine Mass.

And, it's not just grayheads who prefer the Novus Ordo, Snuffington.

You know that.