Brigham Young on the Insufficiency of the Blood of Christ

Deseret News; JOD Vol 4, pp 53-54 | 1856 | Brigham Young

[Wrigley]

I'm not sure I was. I may be in big trouble. Oh, for a present day prophet to teach me.

[FactQuest]

as is the case of the Cross and the Ark of the Covenant

Nice try, but... the Mormon plates are from less than 2 centuries ago, right? In the same country, in modern times, no record of when they were lost... they just disappeared. A miraculous disappearance, perhaps?

Whereas the cross was 2000 years ago. The disciples weren't eager to hang onto it, it held no value in itself, the value was the act committed upon it. And it took them over a month to kick it into gear, it was probably lost by then.

The ark - wow, now we're talking, what, 4000 years ago? And we know what happened, the Egyptian pharaoh Shoshenq plundered the temple.

So, only one of these looks fishy.

[FactQuest]

he just sighed

My heart goes out to him - he's all bound up by sin, and the truth of Jesus would set him free, if he would but accept it.

[jtminton]

Yeah, we set them up pretty good. They came knocking one day and I asked them to come back the next Saturday. My Pastor came over and we listened to their speil and then presented the Gospel to them. I don't know if we had any impact on the main one, but his newby intern guy was rather new to Mormonism and we might have planted a seed.

[Choose Ye This Day]

Matthew 12: 31-32

[Alex Murphy]

Matthew 12: 31-32

The verse itself spells out the "unforgivable sin" - namely, that it is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. More specifically, the context is the Pharisees' accusations that the Holy Spirit and His work were actually works of Satan. This would be your "unforgivable sin", or at very least the "gateway sin" heading towards it.

Hebrews 6:4-6, 10:26-29, and I John 5:16-17 provide further illumination of what constitutes an "unforgivable sin".

Note that, in every case cited, the verses point out that the sin will not be forgiven (i.e. forgiveness is refused), not that it can not be covered by Christ's blood (meaning His blood comes up short). What's worth pointing out is that if Brigham's assertion in the thread's article is true, said sins are ACTUALLY FORGIVABLE, contrary to the Scriptures, IF the guilty party sheds his OWN blood for them.

[P-Marlowe]

Murder also is viewed as an unforgivable sin.

Well then I guess Moses and David and Paul are in big trouble. Which level of hell is reserved for them? Or are they just precluded from becoming Gods?

[P-Marlowe]

it was probably lost by then.

I'm sure it was used again the next day. And again and again until it was eventually used for firewood or a battering ram. Even in Ancient times 300 pounds of lumber was not to be discarded. It wasn't lost. It was recycled.

[ladyinred]

Very well said Jeff. You are a class act sir.

[ladyinred]

I just called my Mormon friend and asked her about this. I read the post to her. She said this isn't practiced this way anymore of course, but in the state of Utah the death penalty allows for death by firing squad for those who request it.

The sin that is not forgiven, according to the LDS is the "Shedding of innocent blood" UNLESS your blood is also shed, thus the firing squad. The electric chair or lethal injection does not shed your blood, therefore it doesn't atone for your sin of murder. The person condemned to death does have the other options, but if he is a LDS and wishes to atone for his sin, he can request firing squad execution.

According to my friend, this is really a loving thing, because it allows the person to be forgiven and go to Heaven. Now we know.

[ladyinred]

Does Mormon teaching anywhere let us know what those sins are? Is this current Mormon teaching?

The shedding of innocent blood, as in murder. Only current as in Utah allows for firing squad for the death penalty

Just in case no one reads the longer post above!

[ladyinred]

My friend who I called is the DIL of a Bishop and they had just discussed this in fact so she was up on the current thinking.

[Nephi]

Please take me off of your anti-Mormon ping list.

[White Mountain]

The title of your thread: Brigham Young on the Insufficiency of the Blood of Christ

Your #1: Are there sins for which the Blood of Jesus is insufficient?

"Insufficient" is your word, and your strawman. You should ask the moderator to change the title to a truthful one.

D&C 29:17 And it shall come to pass, because of the wickedness of the world, that I will take vengeance upon the wicked, for they will not repent; for the cup of mine indignation is full; for behold, my blood shall not cleanse them if they hear me not.

The Scriptures show that there are cases other than refusal to repent where His blood shall not cleanse them, cases of very serious sin as alluded to in other posts on this thread.

The Savior is omnipotent, and His atonement infinite:

Book of Mormon, Alma 34:11-12 (about 74 BC)
11 Now there is not any man that can sacrifice his own blood which will atone for the sins of another. Now, if a man murdereth, behold will our law, which is just, take the life of his brother? I say unto you, Nay.
12 But the law requireth the life of him who hath murdered; therefore there can be nothing which is short of an infinite atonement which will suffice for the sins of the world.

Your #19: The silence is deafening.

Let's not pretend that this is the only time this quote has ever been brought up here. I remind you of those previous discussions.

I also remind you that you have my witness, my testimony, which is what you may assume in my silence.

The Holy Spirit bears witness, and I bear witness, that the Lord Jesus Christ has sent true and living apostles and prophets to the earth in our day, has restored His ancient Church to the earth, and has named it The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.

[ksen]

Matthew 12: 31-32

Sorry, those verses say the sin against the Holy Spirit shall(or will) not be forgiven. It doesn't say that it cannot be forgiven.

Brigham says that there are sins(plural) that the blood of Christ is not sufficient payment for, instead the perpetrator's blood must be shed.

Do you have any explanation for this? Was Brigham speaking in his role as a prophet when he preached this?

[ksen]

According to my friend, this is really a loving thing, because it allows the person to be forgiven and go to Heaven. Now we know.

Can you ask your friend where the Bible says the shedding of our own blood remits any type of sin? Thanks.

[ksen]

Please take me off of your anti-Mormon ping list.

Is it considered Anti-Mormon to ask a question about Brigham Young's teachings?

[ksen]

The Scriptures show that there are cases other than refusal to repent where His blood shall not cleanse them, cases of very serious sin as alluded to in other posts on this thread.

Again the point is being danced around that Brigham, in the article at the top, explicitly says that there are sins for which the blood of Christ cannot atone. That is a big difference from saying the blood of Christ shall not atone for certain sins.

The sin of shedding innocent blood keeps getting brought up. Brigham says there are sins, plural, for which Christ's blood cannot atone. So what are the other sins?

Or was Brigham mistaken?

Let me also ask you what I asked ladyinred above, where in the Bible does it ever say that our own blood can be a sufficient atonement for anything?