Brigham Young on the Insufficiency of the Blood of Christ

Deseret News; JOD Vol 4, pp 53-54 | 1856 | Brigham Young

[ksen]

"There are sins that men commit for which they cannot receive forgiveness in this world, or in that which is to come, and if they had their eyes open to see their true condition, they would be perfectly willing to have their blood spilt upon the ground, that the smoke thereof might ascend to heaven as an offering for their sins; and the smoking incense would atone for their sins, whereas, if such is not the case, they will stick to them and remain upon them in the spirit world. "I know, when you hear my brethren telling about cutting people off from the earth, that you consider it is strong doctrine; but it is to save them, not to destroy them....

"And further more, I know that there are transgressors, who, if they knew themselves, and the only condition upon which they can obtain forgiveness, would beg of their brethren to shed their blood, that the smoke thereof might ascend to God as an offering to appease the wrath that is kindled against them, and that the law might have its course. I will say further; I have had men come to me and offer their lives to atone for their sins.

"It is true that the blood of the Son of God was shed for sins through the fall and those committed by men, yet men can commit sins which it can never remit.... There are sins that can be atoned for by an offering upon an altar, as in ancient days; and there are sins that the blood of a lamb, or a calf, or of turtle dove, cannot remit, but they must be atoned for by the blood of the man." (Sermon by Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, pages 53-54); also published in the Mormon Church's Deseret News, 1856, page 235)

[jtminton]

One missionary that my Pastor and I talked to said that if you die before you repent of a sin, you are not forgiven for it (but some humdrum about working it out when you get to heaven so that you could move on up). We asked what would happen if you died while committing a sin and he just sighed and said, "I don't know man. It would be bad."

[Jeff Head]

Jesus Christ is my personal Savior and I confess Him as such with a sincere and humble heart. He has atoned for my sins. That is what I am taught in my Church and how I try to live. That should be enough for you.

I never intend to find out or try to determine as to whether the sin against the Holy Ghost cannot be, or will not be atoned. I suspect God in Heaven and His Son will handle all such issues, questions and inquiries and I trust in their all inclusive wisdom and knowledge to do so.

As to any other differences that you are apt or desirous to raise (and clearly, from the tone of the thread I am inclined to believe that this appears to be the intent), I will refer you back to the opening paragraph of my response. That is the all critical thing .

Fregards.

[ksen]

As to any other differences that you are apt or desirous to raise (and clearly, from the tone of the thread I am inclined to believe that this appears to be the intent), I will refer you back to the opening paragraph of my response. That is the all critical thing .

I appreciate your opening paragraph. I just wonder what Brigham Young was talking about. He says there are sins that the blood of Christ cannot atone for, doesn't it behoove us to try and figure out what those sins would be?

[tracer]

Murder also is viewed as an unforgivable sin. I would substitute "insufficient" with "not intended for" the redemption of those who shed innocent blood....

[tracer]

Very few of any of us here on Earth have sufficient knowledge to be capable of committing "the sin against the Holy Spirit".....

[tracer]

The operative word is "former"....

[jtminton]

figure out what those sins would be?

Killing a seagull?

[Alex Murphy]

"insufficient" with "not intended for"

I'd have to disagree with the switch -

"Not intended for" is a statement of intent and proper application. Sure, a demoliton blasting cap is not intended for use as a leaf blower, but it can do the job. And it's not recommended for use by ages five and under, although they could set one off.

On the other hand, "insufficient" is a statement of capability. An aerosol can of ther antiperspirant "Right Guard" produces a gust of air, too, but the gust is insufficient to clear your yard of leaves.

[tracer]

"Did they ever turn up those plates?"

Not yet, as is the case of the Cross and the Ark of the Covenant, among other sacred things......

[tracer]

Good point. I was referring to the belief that the Lord does not see fit to forgive the shedding of innocent blood.

I fully intend to never be in a position to test that proposition. And I share the convictions of Jeff Head concerning our Savior and Redeemer, Jesus Christ. All the best.....

[ksen]

I would substitute "insufficient" with "not intended for" the redemption of those who shed innocent blood....

Thanks for your answer tracer, I would just note that Brigham said in his discourse that there are sins for which Jesus' blood cannot atone. That means Jesus' blood is unable to cleanse the particular sins on Brigham's mind.

Does Mormon teaching anywhere let us know what those sins are? Is this current Mormon teaching?

[Wrigley]

Do you think that's what BY was getting at? Or did he mean the former?

[tracer]

"Right Guard" produces a gust of air, too, but the gust is insufficient to clear your yard of leaves."

You should drop by my townhouse and see if you still hold that view...... 8~)

[ksen]

Not yet, as is the case of the Cross....

WHAT!?!? You mean that certified, serial numbered good luck piece of the Cross charm isn't authentic?

Rats.......there goes that $29.95.

[tracer]

Everything else that I've read that has been said or written by Brigham Young suggests that he would never doubt the ability of the Jesus Christ or our Heavenly Father to do whatever they saw fit to bring to pass. The only "unforgivable sins" that "Mormon" theology addresses, and does so only briefly, are the shedding of innocent blood and the denying of or blaspheming against the Holy Ghost (by one having attained knowledge sufficient to do so).

The topic properly remains unclear and is seldom discussed in the Scriptures or by the leadership of the (LDS) Church.....

[LiteKeeper]

The operative word is "former"....

Sorry - your point is?

[tracer]

Moral of the story -- stay out of Tijuana... 8~)

[tracer]

No. The sin lies in feeding or not killing a seagull (aka, winged rat).....

[Wrigley]

Only $29.95? I've been told I don't shop well. I guess this just proves it.

(Do you think not value shopping is a forgivable sin?)

[ksen]

(Do you think not value shopping is a forgivable sin?)

If you meant to value shop you're probably ok. ;^)