Latin Masses to be allowed after 25 years

Arizona Republic ^ | 3/17/2004 | Michael Clancy

[lrslattery]

Latin, the ancient language of the Catholic Church, will be allowed in Diocese of Phoenix churches for the first time in at least 25 years.

Bishop Thomas J. Olmsted, reversing 20 years of diocesan policy, announced the change to priests at a meeting earlier this month. A committee will report today on details.

[ArrogantBustard]

Exactly. Thank you.

Seriously, there's a big difference between the wymyn priest thing and the married priest thing. The former is a matter of doctrine, infallibly defined, not negotiable, and at the very core of the nature of the ordained ministerial priesthood. See "Ordinatio Sacerdotalis" for details. The latter is a matter of discipline (particularly in the Latin Rite), and subject to change. I oppose such change, but accept that change could be made without destroying the nature of the Priesthood.

[gbcdoj]

Scripture is also very clear about unmarried MEN being better fit to serve God.

"For this cause I left thee in Crete: that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting and shouldest ordain priests in every city, as I also appointed thee: If any be without crime, the husband of one wife. having faithful children, not accused of riot or unruly." Epistle of St. Paul to St. Titus 1.5-6

"It behoveth therefore a bishop to be blameless, the husband of one wife, sober, prudent, of good behaviour, chaste, given to hospitality, a teacher" First Epistle of St. Paul to St. Timothy 3:2

Yep. Just look at how St. Paul tells SS. Titus and Timothy to ordain only celibate men to the priesthood...

Mandatory celibacy is a post-apostolic innovation which was considered and rejected by the Council of Nicaea (cf. Socrates Scholasticus Ecclesiastical History I, XI ). It certainly is not required by Scripture.

[dsc]

" but accept that change could be made without destroying the nature of the Priesthood."

It would not destroy it, but it would be a step downward.

[gravyfreak]

It doesn't appear that this mass has the approval of the Bishop...although technically no one can stop a priest from celebrating Tridentine Mass even if they have to do it in private. Disobedience is disobedience. Jesus was obedient.

[Tuco Ramirez]

The apostles that were married abandoned their families.

While the Eastern Rite Churches allow married priests, those individuals never advance to become bishops.

The history of the Orthodox Churches knuckling under to Communism is the best case for a celibate clergy; those Churches have few heroes among their clergy from a dark time in history. One explanation is that the hierarchy always had to keep the safety of their immediate families in mind when dealing with authority figures.

The Russian Orthodox Church, which worked hand in hand with Communists for seventy years, recently declared Tsar Nicholas II a minor saint; go figure.

[ArrogantBustard]

Are the Byzantines, Melkites, Syrians, etc. "a step downward"? I'll have to tell my Melkite Catholic Priest friend you said that. I'm sure he'll be amused.

Within the context of the Latin Rite (and with the exception for converted Anglicans) I would see it as capitulating to the bad guys, and as totally unnecessary for reversing the "priest shortage". A return to radical orthodoxy in the seminaries, and a removal from office of the heterodox nuns in the vocations bureaucracies would be much more to the point.

[k omalley]

The article states that Bishop Holmstead himself has approved the Tridentine Mass.

[gravyfreak]

Call the diocese office to make sure it is sanctioned by the Bishop, otherwise they are renegades. There is a Tridentine Mass in Oswego and in Utica which is under Bishop Monyihan. I can check on the times for anyone who is interested. I know the Utica Tridentine Mass is this Sunday at 12:30 at the Seton Chapel behind Lourdes Church
Barton Ave and Genesee Street (across from St. Elizabeth's Hospital) and on the 2nd and 4th sundays of each month the Tridentine is at 9:00a.m. Other times as announced. I'm not sure about Oswego, but I can get the information for you.

[gbcdoj]

We know one apostle was married at one time because he had a mother in law - no mention of his wife, though. No mention of wives of the other apostles. But we do know that they followed him and left everything.

Not so! "Don't we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord's brothers and Cephas? [1 Corinthians 9.5]"

[american colleen]

It strikes me that St. Paul wrote and preached with the belief that he would see the second coming - hence, even though he believed an unmarried state was preferable to the married state, he needed leaders regardless. The Christian population was pretty small at that time and it was chaotic.

[gravyfreak]

Our Tridentine Mass in Utica is the old latin rite. Priest offers up Mass facing the altar (back towards the people)
...as he is offering it up with them not performing for them.

[gravyfreak]

Our Tridentine Mass in Utica is the old latin rite. Priest offers up Mass facing the altar (back towards the people)
...as he is offering it up with them not performing for them.

[dsc]

"Latin, the ancient language of the Catholic Church, will be allowed in Diocese of Phoenix churches for the first time in at least 25 years."

Gloria patri et filio et spiritui sancto. Sicut erat in principio et nunc et semper et in secula seculorum. Amen.

[k omalley]

"heterodox nuns in the vocations bureaucracies"

Were you around in the days when nuns were pillars of orthodoxy and feared and respected. Its a shame that the term "nun" now conjures up the image of a heretical flake.

[netmilsmom]

Wow, you startled me! I live in Utica, MI!! Our city was named after yours.

[american colleen]

Well of course they had a right, but they apparently renounced that right when they became Jesus' apostles.

"Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore? And Jesus said unto them, . . . every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life."

[american colleen]

showoff! ;-)

One of the biggest regrets I have is that I slept through Latin I and II back in the 70s.

[Tuco Ramirez]

I would think that they're a step "upward" at this point; they've preserved the truth better than the West. Some of their practices/customs will never fly well in the US (such as those that have the genders sit separately in the Church), but that doesn't weaken their message.

[ArrogantBustard]

I was, and my hair bears mute testimony to that fact (by its colour). But there are signs of hope in the world. These sisters wear habits, even!

[kstewskis]

OUR PRAYERS HAVE BEEN ANSWERED!!

I can't tell you how thrilled I am! I will be waiting anxiously for them to begin!

This is such awesome news!

Jay! If you ever get down to see your buddy in FH, you'll have a great place to worship!!