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(Albany) Catholics clash during discussions of bishop (Hubbard)
Troy Record ^ | February 23, 2004 | Kate Perry

Posted on 02/23/2004 12:48:17 AM PST by NYer

ALBANY - A rift among local Catholics precipitated by the sexual abuse scandal in the Roman Catholic Diocese of Albany and recent allegations against Bishop Howard Hubbard was seen in living color Sunday night as two women screamed in each other's face.


The shouting match took place at the Crowne Plaza hotel, where The Roman Catholic Faithful, a non-profit organization that claims it promotes orthodox Catholic teaching and fights corruption in the church's hierarchy, held a meeting to discuss its investigation into the Albany Diocese.

More than 100 people attended, many hoping to get some answers about the diocese's crisis, including the newest development, the Feb. 15 apparent suicide of Rev. John Minkler, a Watervliet priest who some say wrote a letter in 1995 detailing homosexual behavior and liturgical abuses in the diocese. Minkler's death came one day after a meeting with diocese officials at which he signed a statement saying he did not author the letter. Stephen Brady president of RCF, and Paul Likoudis, editor of The Wanderer, a Catholic watchdog publication, who were the speakers at Sunday's event, both said Minkler had called them just prior to his death distressed about the situation with Hubbard.

Brady, who along with Likoudis brought the letter into the public light without Minkler's name, said Sunday that he was very sorry for Minkler's death and the stress that he underwent because of the letter's eventual publication, but Brady steadfastly denied that he ever revealed Minkler's name.

In recent days, some have implied that the bishop and the diocese played a role in Minkler's death, either directly or by driving him to suicide. Hubbard's supporters maintain that the allegation is ridiculous. The most heated moments however, occurred when supporters of Hubbard spoke up. They gathered outside the conference room and periodically interrupted those speaking to express their disagreement or just to make statements of their own, which had the audience shouting "move on," "get a life," and "leave."

But it was when one of the bishop's supporters approached the microphone during the question-and-answer period that the most intense disagreement occurred. The crowd began shouting over her and asking her to leave and another woman yelled in her face to "go away" as the two struggled for control of the microphone. The incident occurred after Likoudis spoke about his ties with Minkler, with whom he wrote the 10-part series "Agony in Albany," and Brady detailed occurrences of sexual misconduct of clergy around the country, just briefly touching on the situation in Albany.

Brady specifically targeted bishops' activities, their lenience on homosexuality and their liturgical abuses, but was careful not to lay guilt on Hubbard. Still, his implications were strong. "You can't do the things that some of these bishops do and believe in hell," he said, later adding, "I'm only doing this to show that bishops have no credibility. None."

Carol Keinath, a resident of Coxsackie and a Hubbard supporter, and another supporter who asked not to be named said they were shocked that anyone would turn out for such an event, which to them seemed largely negative and offered no real solutions for the problems that now face the diocese. They agreed that the allegations of priests sexually abusing teenagers and children over past decades and of rampant homosexuality in the diocese are troubling, but Keinath said the diocese is handling the situation well at this point. The other supporter, who claims to have been sexually abused by a priest at the age of 20, said the diocese has done what it can and that the function on Sunday was simply dwelling on the past. "The church today is addressing those issues," she said. "The victims' advocate is a positive thing and the bishop is very supportive of the victims. The victims are always his first focus."

As for the most recent allegations made by Andrew Zalay - who links the suicide of his brother in 1978 to an alleged sexual relationship between the deceased and the bishop, and Anthony Bonneau, a man who claims that as a teenage prostitute, Hubbard was one of his clients - neither women believes them.
"I have a high regard for (Hubbard) as a person. I see what he has done for so many people over the years and I know he is a person of God," Keinath said. The unfailing support of the two women for Hubbard met sharp contrast from fellow Catholics who had their minds made up well before the meeting on Sunday.

John Carswell, an Albany resident, said he wants Hubbard to resign based on the apparent cover-up of sexual abuse that happened in the diocese before the most recent allegations even surfaced. Albany resident Cynthia Herubin also said that Hubbard should step down, but was disappointed that more about the situation in Albany wasn't revealed at the meeting. "I don't think it answered the questions I still have one way or another," she said.


TOPICS: Activism; Catholic; Current Events; General Discusssion; Moral Issues; Religion & Culture; Religion & Politics; Worship
KEYWORDS: brady; hubbard; likoudis; minkler; rcf
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Some basis for comparison to my report.
1 posted on 02/23/2004 12:48:17 AM PST by NYer
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To: american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; CAtholic Family Association; narses; ...
The confrontation at the microphone was one of the highlights at the meeting. WTEN made that the focus of their 11 o'clock news report.
2 posted on 02/23/2004 12:50:18 AM PST by NYer (Ad Jesum per Mariam)
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To: NYer
The confrontation at the microphone was one of the highlights at the meeting.  WTEN made that the focus of their 11 o'clock news report.
...a woman, wearing a purple ribbon, walked up to a microphone and began to read a prepared speech. Just then, a woman in the audience stood up, walked over to the woman at the microphone and told her to leave. This confrontation went on for more than 5 minutes and will surely get lots of air time on the news.
LOL.   Nice job, "scoop"!  :-)

3 posted on 02/23/2004 5:50:30 AM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: NYer; narses; Land of the Irish; Loyalist; AAABEST
Go get'em Steve! You said it all when you said the bishops have no credibility. You only left out one issue. These bishops do not work in a vacuum. Let's not forget that Rome is ultimately responsible. They DO have the authority to cleanse the Church. They also have the means. They just do not have the will. Like a brilliant freeper has said to me in the past "The lunatics are running the asylum.".
4 posted on 02/23/2004 5:54:56 AM PST by sydney smith
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To: NYer; ninenot; sinkspur; Antoninus; GirlShortstop; Desdemona; american colleen; saradippity; ...
In a related story, Bertha Butch and Lucretia Lipstick, proprietors of the local lesbian abortion clinic for anti-nuclear gay whales, swung their pocketbooks at actual Catholics in attendance, screaming in leftist sing-song:

"There is a how, there is a way: we're backin' our Howie BECAUSE he's gay." and

"He cruises parks, he cruises bars. That's why Howie is our star!" and

"Anti-Church and anti-state! That's why Howie's really great!"

Meanwhile, Bishop Howard "Hubba Hubba" Hubbard (no I am not stuttering) announced that John Fonda Kerry will be doing an avante garde "Catholic" rally supporting the right of gay bishops to cruise public parks with a fistful of twenties to look for "love" in all the wrong places with all the wrong people, including the under-15s. The 21st century JFK aka Lurch was quoted as saying: "If those right-wing nuts want to mess with our Howie, I say: Bring it on!"

Meanwhile, in Fort Worth.......

We do need a little gallows humor at times like this.

5 posted on 02/23/2004 6:11:43 AM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: sydney smith
Paging Sydney Smith! Paging Sydney Smith! Your schism is ready, sir, and the inferno awaits! Paging Sydney Smith! Paging Sydney Smith!

Go to your room, Sydney, and leave this to the grownups.

6 posted on 02/23/2004 6:14:25 AM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: NYer
offered no real solutions for the problems that now face the diocese.

IOW, Brady and Likoudis came to Albany to keep the pot stirred.

It appears they accomplished their mission.

7 posted on 02/23/2004 6:19:27 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: sinkspur
Did the Hubbard supporters or have the Hubbard supporters offered "real solution" to the crisis that has been brewing in Albany?

If Hubbard were more orthodox than he is, there would be no Hubbard supporters and VOTF would be all over this like a cheap cassock - all calling for his resignation.

8 posted on 02/23/2004 6:23:57 AM PST by american colleen
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To: sinkspur
Plus we have the attention span of knats and it is high time that the garbage in all dioceses comes to light and is held up for scrutiny and not quietly filed away.

All of this crap (starting with the scandal story in Boston) has explained to me what I have been agonized over for 25 years - what happened to the Church? I don't want it to go away unless it's been cleaned up, I don't want to pretend it isn't there. Brady and Likoudis might not be everyone's cup of tea but I am thankful that they are bringing these issues to the forefront.

9 posted on 02/23/2004 6:27:54 AM PST by american colleen
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To: american colleen
Did the Hubbard supporters or have the Hubbard supporters offered "real solution" to the crisis that has been brewing in Albany?

Which crisis?

The recent crisis of sexual abuse accusations against Hubbard and the mysterious death of Minkler? Or the heterodox crisis?

They're different. Brady wants to blend them into one.

I admire a lot of what Brady does, but he throws around a lot of accusations not backed up by facts, or backed up by hearsay only. Plus, some of his rhetoric (such as his declaration that his mission is to "destroy people") is over the top.

It would be easier on everybody if Hubbard resigned. But, he should NOT resign while under the cloud of suspicion of criminality. It's too damned easy to ruin people with false accusations.

10 posted on 02/23/2004 6:31:22 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: sinkspur
IOW, Brady and Likoudis came to Albany to keep the pot stirred.

The pot needs to be stirred. It's been on a low simmer for 26 years now in Albany. Hopefully it will boil over soon....
11 posted on 02/23/2004 6:34:33 AM PST by Antoninus (Federal Marriage Amendment NOW!)
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To: sinkspur
So I guess that Pell shouldn't have stepped down either?

The "crisis" in Albany is all of one piece. It's a distain and disregard for the teachings of the Catholic Church regardless of what the subject is - sexuality, chastity, celibacy, norms in the Mass, parish structure, - almost everything. You should read the series "Agony in Albany."

12 posted on 02/23/2004 6:36:56 AM PST by american colleen
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To: american colleen
Plus we have the attention span of knats and it is high time that the garbage in all dioceses comes to light and is held up for scrutiny and not quietly filed away.

If the bishops were made accountable to the people of their dioceses, there would be watchdog groups in each diocese to monitor what the clergy are doing.

Of course, any time that's suggested, the individual suggesting it gets "you're just a VOTF supporter" thrown in his face.

13 posted on 02/23/2004 6:37:29 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: NYer
**WTEN made that the focus of their 11 o'clock news report.**

Too bad the local media zeroed in on this. You are a real reporter -- we got this info last night from you! (But it wasn't the focus of what you said -- LOL!

14 posted on 02/23/2004 6:38:32 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: american colleen
So I guess that Pell shouldn't have stepped down either?

Pell's charges were made to a prosecutor. The charges against Hubbard can't even be brought into court.

15 posted on 02/23/2004 6:38:44 AM PST by sinkspur (Adopt a shelter dog or cat! You'll save one life, and maybe two!)
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To: sinkspur
It's too damned easy to ruin people with false accusations.

Do you believe that Hubbard is "ruined" now?   It sure sounds like his fruit (the diocese) is.   The opinion of pro- and con-Hubbard will exist regardless of whether he's an active bishop or not.  What ill-effect, other than a perspective that's not going away and not being undone, would Hubbard face in retirement?
16 posted on 02/23/2004 6:40:53 AM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: BlackElk
In a related story, Bertha Butch and Lucretia Lipstick, proprietors of the local lesbian abortion clinic for anti-nuclear gay whales, swung their pocketbooks at actual Catholics in attendance, screaming in leftist sing-song:

LOL!!   Thanks for a smile this morning.
17 posted on 02/23/2004 6:42:38 AM PST by GirlShortstop
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To: sinkspur
The recent crisis of sexual abuse accusations against Hubbard and the mysterious death of Minkler? Or the heterodox crisis?

The latter is what has brought about the former.

18 posted on 02/23/2004 6:44:48 AM PST by B Knotts (Deport Arnold!)
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To: sinkspur
You know, it occurred to me last night that some priests must lust after the office of bishop regardless of their behaviour and beliefs.

The bishop of Springfield, Ma., Bishop Dupre, has not been charged with any crimes at all but several men have come foreward and said that he had an ongoing relationship with them while he was a parish priest and they were young teenagers. He still sends cards and gifts to one of the men. Bishop Dupre was horribly negligent in curbing more than a few abusive priests (one of them murdered a 12 year old boy years ago and was kept in the active priesthood until this year). The level of dissent in that diocese is high - my mother lives there and her community ended up building their own chapel (she is not SSPX or sedevacantist) which is semi-staffed by visiting orthodox priests. The men who "told on" Bishop Dupre only did so after he became vocal in denouncing homosexual marriage. They were incensed and accused him of hypocracy.

All this made me realize that Bishop Dupre probably lobbied for and accepted the mitre... all the while knowing he broke his vows of celibacy and chastity on an ongoing basis (stopped only when he was appointed bishop) which compromised his ability to treat sexual offenders with the integrity that an honest man would have. It also obviously compromised his adherence to the Magisterium which he promised to obey and promote.

19 posted on 02/23/2004 6:46:31 AM PST by american colleen
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To: NYer
Brady, who along with Likoudis brought the letter into the public light without Minkler's name, said Sunday that he was very sorry for Minkler's death and the stress that he underwent because of the letter's eventual publication,

Did I miss something here? Where has this been published? I think we'd all like to read what was in that letter.

20 posted on 02/23/2004 6:51:06 AM PST by B Knotts (Deport Arnold!)
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