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Fasting - Our Lost Rite
The Tablet ^ | 1/31/2004 | Eamon Duffy

Posted on 01/31/2004 9:02:01 AM PST by livius

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This ties in with our discussion yesterday of changes in the liturgy, modernism, etc.
1 posted on 01/31/2004 9:02:01 AM PST by livius
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To: BlackElk; Desdemona; Salvation; AnAmericanMother; MarMema
The authoritarian narrowing of the tradition to, in essence, a body of doctrines to be believed and orders from above to be obeyed, was a decisive factor in desensitising ordinary Catholics, clerical as well as lay, to the beauty and independent value of their inherited observances...

I thought this was a particularly good observation. I have always felt that the approach taken by the architects of Vat II to liturgy and practice was extremely authoritarian and legalistic, despite their claims to be just the reverse.

Ping to a few names I could think of off the top of my head. Please ping anybody else you think might be interested in this.

2 posted on 01/31/2004 9:06:03 AM PST by livius
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To: livius
Eamon Duffy is right on the mark -- bring back a real rather than just a token fast and abstinence!
3 posted on 01/31/2004 9:06:07 AM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: livius; katnip; FormerLib
The ordinary members of the Orthodox and Byzantine Rite Catholic Churches have a far less authoritarian mentality than Catholics, a far more widespread and lively sense of the richness of their traditions of prayer and practice, and a far more secure sense of ownership by the people of the symbols which provide continuity with the Christian past and guidance to its future.

I can certainly agree with this statement, for my part.

The theological and practical shift represented by this abandonment of an ancient part of the tradition was not merely a matter of theological emphasis, and more, too, than a question of whether ascetical exercises like fasting are good for the character. What was also at stake was the Church's prophetic integrity: its claim to solidarity with the poor.

This would be a strictly RC thing. For the Orthodox, fasting is a liberation from dependence on earthly food and a daily reminder about dependence upon the true "Bread of Life".

Additionally I would comment that fasting should never, for us, be intended as a witness to others, as the author suggests here. Christ instructed us to fast secretly.
It can be difficult! We fast all year on two days of the week, Wednesday and Friday, and I often find I am struggling to come up with an excuse about why I am refusing dairy products at a gathering. Avoiding a lie and not admitting to fasting can be a tricky endeavor.

4 posted on 01/31/2004 9:41:19 AM PST by MarMema
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To: livius
Sunday Mass can be heard on a Saturday to make way for a day's work or cleaning the car or a morning in bed with the papers, like our pagan neighbours.

This is an excellent observation, but I think that in addition to having to stretch oneself and give up the world, what is at risk with these kinds of watering-down of customs and traditions - and you can see them in our mission churches, where a working priest is a necessity for a small parish - is the loss of fellowship. If people attend church on separate days, they don't share the liturgy together. It can be the same for fasting. (Check out any Orthodox mailing list about one month into Great Lent, and you will see a lot of posts about food.)

5 posted on 01/31/2004 9:58:19 AM PST by MarMema
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To: livius
The three practices of Lent:

prayer,
fasting,
almsgiving
6 posted on 01/31/2004 9:59:45 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: *Catholic_list; father_elijah; nickcarraway; SMEDLEYBUTLER; Siobhan; Lady In Blue; attagirl; ...
Catholic Discussion Ping!

Please notify me via Freepmail if you would like to be added to or removed from the Catholic Discussion Ping list.

7 posted on 01/31/2004 10:01:56 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: MarMema
Yes, that's true.

I think that it's a sort of "secret handshake" with other Orthodox, though, and not eating fish on Fridays was the same for Catholics. Eating meat on Fridays was such a well-known prohibition (because it is very ancient) that anyone who specifically ate fish or non-meat meals on Friday virtually identified themselves as Catholic, something that was not viewed as a very positive thing in many parts of this country and often exposed them to ridicule and dislike.

A friend who grew up in a Protestant family in Pittsburgh quite some time ago once told me that the only regional food tradition she could recall was eating bacon on Fridays - she said it was probably to prove that you were neither Jewish nor Catholic, both of these being groups regarded with suspicion or even hostility by the Protestant majority.

And I remember being in situations where, when you saw somebody order the non-meat meal on a Friday, you knew there was a fellow Catholic there. To say nothing of the jokes everybody made about their mother's Friday tuna casserole...
8 posted on 01/31/2004 10:02:08 AM PST by livius
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To: livius
Thought some might also find this interesting...

Effects of Greek orthodox christian church fasting on serum lipids and obesity.

9 posted on 01/31/2004 10:11:29 AM PST by MarMema
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To: livius
Just a few other things...

Do you or did you, in the RC church, practise sexual abstinence as well?

And I wanted to share this stress diet with you, from a Russian Orthodox church in Texas.

10 posted on 01/31/2004 10:23:21 AM PST by MarMema
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To: livius
And I remember being in situations where, when you saw somebody order the non-meat meal on a Friday, you knew there was a fellow Catholic there. To say nothing of the jokes everybody made about their mother's Friday tuna casserole...

Exactly. Just like our jokes - you can tell someone is Orthodox because they don't flinch when water is thrown at them. I see these shared experiences as an essential part of unity within the church. And I see this unity as something that provides a backbone for the rest of what Christ wants from us.

11 posted on 01/31/2004 10:26:57 AM PST by MarMema
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To: katnip; livius; newberger; FormerLib
Some other examples, hopefully encouraging RC to share as well.. some of these you might share with us or they could be used to develop your own list!

You might be Orthodox if...

You have developed ways of stretching your legs while standing in place without drawing attention to yourself.

You’ve ever gotten into an argument with somebody about the ingredients in marshmallows.

History Channel shows about the Byzantine Empire make you wistful.

Bestselling paperbacks containing obscure historical tidbits about the 4th century make you go, “Hey, that’s not the way it happened!”

You have an emergency head scarf in your glove compartment.

You know all the take-out restaurants near your place of employment that serve meat-free, dairy-free meals.

You think of peanut butter as one of the essential food groups.

You can’t describe your Sunday morning church service to co-workers without using foreign terms.

Sending your misbehaving teenager off to a monastery on a Greek island doesn’t seem like a bizarre idea at all but a very practical one.

You use “icon” as a verb.

You consider an hour long church service to be "short."

You can name a brand of chocolate that doesn't have milk or animal fats in it.

You know how to remove wax from clothing.

You have varicose veins by the time you're twenty.

You forget to change your clock at Daylight Savings Time, show up an hour late, but the service is still going on....

A greasy forehead doesn't bother you.

12 posted on 01/31/2004 10:39:06 AM PST by MarMema
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To: MarMema
You have varicose veins by the time you're twenty.

I never understood this one. Maybe it has something to do with Slavic genes that makes some of us immune? My folks are in their eighties and have none, but some of those poor converts in church...

13 posted on 01/31/2004 11:23:29 AM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: Salvation
Our priest always adds "increase your reading of Scripture" to that.
14 posted on 01/31/2004 11:25:27 AM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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To: FormerLib
Prolonged standing increases chances of getting varicose veins.
15 posted on 01/31/2004 11:55:55 AM PST by MarMema
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To: FormerLib
**Our priest always adds "increase your reading of Scripture" to that.**

Good suggestion, however, I would include that with the prayer part!
16 posted on 01/31/2004 12:42:11 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: livius
I had the same thought and was reminded of GK Chesterton writing something to the effect that those who scream tolerance the loudest show themselves to be the least tolerant.
17 posted on 01/31/2004 1:09:50 PM PST by Aestus Veritatis (The power of the scientific method is in the mortification of experimenter bias.)
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To: Salvation
"The three practices of Lent:

prayer,
fasting,
almsgiving"

Ths Five Pillars of Islam are the same three plus, Faith and the Haj.
18 posted on 01/31/2004 1:11:54 PM PST by John Beresford Tipton
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To: livius; american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; CAtholic Family Association; narses; ..
The laws regulating abstinence were 'relaxed' but not changed. Here they are:

* * * * *

THE CODE OF CANON LAW: A TEXT AND COMMENTARY
IV THE OFFICE OF SANCTIFYING IN THE CHURCH
Canon Law Society of America -- © 1985

CHAPTER II
DAYS OF PENANCE

[cc. 1249--1253]


Purpose and Observance of Penitential Days

Canon 1249 -- All members of the Christian faithful in their own way are bound to do penance in virtue of divine law; in order that all may be joined in a common observance of penance, penitential days are prescribed in which the Christian faithful in a special way pray, exercise works of piety and charity, and deny themselves by fulfilling their responsibilities more faithfully and especially by observing fast and abstinence according to the norm of the following canons.

This entire section of the 1917 Code had been reformed by Paul VI on February 17, 1966 with the apostolic constitution Poenitemini (see bibliography following c. 1253). The five canons in this chapter of the Code are a summary of part of this document and must not be understood apart from it, especially the very rich discursive section of the document treating the history of penance and its role in the life of every Christian.

Penitential Days

Canon 1250 -- All Fridays through the year and the time of Lent are penitential days and times throughout the universal Church.


This canon is taken from Poenitemini, part III,


Days of Abstinence and Fasting

Canon 1251
-- Abstinence from eating meat or another food according to the prescriptions of the conference of bishops is to be observed on Fridays throughout the year unless they are solemnities; abstinence and fast are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and on the Friday of the Passion and Death of Our Lord Jesus Christ.


This canon is taken from Poenitemini, part III, 112. Poenitemini exempted holy days of obligation from Friday abstinence; this canon extends that exemption to all solemnities whether they are of obligation or not. The Code also gives the conference of bishops the power to substitute another penance to be observed on Fridays in place of abstinence from meat.

Neither Poenitemini nor the Code mentions fasting on Holy Saturday whereas The Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy (SC 109) states:

The paschal fast must be kept sacred. It should be celebrated everywhere on Good Friday, and where possible should be prolonged throughout Holy Saturday so that the faithful may attain the joys of the Sunday of the resurrection with uplifted and responsive minds.

Poenitemini adds the following explanation of abstinence and fast:

The law of abstinence forbids the use of meat, but not of eggs, the products of milk or condiments made of animal fat. The law of fasting allows only one full meal a day, but does not prohibit taking some food in the morning and evening, observing--as far as quantity and quality are concerned--approved local custom (III-1 & 2).

Obligation to Abstain/Fast

Canon 1252
-- All persons who have completed their fourteenth year are bound by the law of abstinence; all adults are bound by the law of fast up to the beginning of their sixtieth year. Nevertheless, pastors and parents are to see to it that minors who are not bound by the law of fast and abstinence are educated in an authentic sense of penance.


The completion of the fourteenth year means the day after one's fourteenth birthday. The beginning of the sixtieth year means the obligation ceases at midnight between the fifty-ninth birthday and the next day.

Poenitemini stated that the law of fast bound those who have completed their twenty-first year; the Code uses the term "adults," i.e., those who have completed their eighteenth year (c. 97, §1).

The admonition to pastors and parents to educate those of a lesser age in a true sense of penance is taken from Poenitemini and is new to the Code.

Discretion of Conference of Bishops

Canon 1253
-- It is for the conference of bishops to determine more precisely the observance of fast and abstinence and to substitute in whole or in part for fast and abstinence other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety.


The National Conference of Catholic Bishops in their pastoral statement of November 18, 1966 determined the following:

Catholics in the United States are obliged to abstain from the eating of meat on Ash Wednesday and on all Fridays during the season of Lent. They are also obliged to fast on Ash Wednesday and on Good Friday. Self-imposed observance of fasting on all weekdays of Lent is strongly recommended. Abstinence from flesh meat on all Fridays of the year is especially recommended to individuals and to the Catholic community as a whole.

The entire statement can be found in Canon Law Digest (CLD 6, 679--684).

Catholic Ping - let me know if you want on/off this list


19 posted on 01/31/2004 1:33:01 PM PST by NYer (Ad Jesum per Mariam)
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To: Salvation
Yes, that would work well. For me, I find that by keeping them separate, I remember to work on both of them. But that's just me, of course!
20 posted on 01/31/2004 1:45:08 PM PST by FormerLib (We'll fight the good fight until the very end!)
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