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This ties in with our discussion yesterday of changes in the liturgy, modernism, etc.
1 posted on 01/31/2004 9:02:01 AM PST by livius
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To: BlackElk; Desdemona; Salvation; AnAmericanMother; MarMema
The authoritarian narrowing of the tradition to, in essence, a body of doctrines to be believed and orders from above to be obeyed, was a decisive factor in desensitising ordinary Catholics, clerical as well as lay, to the beauty and independent value of their inherited observances...

I thought this was a particularly good observation. I have always felt that the approach taken by the architects of Vat II to liturgy and practice was extremely authoritarian and legalistic, despite their claims to be just the reverse.

Ping to a few names I could think of off the top of my head. Please ping anybody else you think might be interested in this.

2 posted on 01/31/2004 9:06:03 AM PST by livius
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To: livius
Eamon Duffy is right on the mark -- bring back a real rather than just a token fast and abstinence!
3 posted on 01/31/2004 9:06:07 AM PST by Unam Sanctam
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To: livius
The three practices of Lent:

prayer,
fasting,
almsgiving
6 posted on 01/31/2004 9:59:45 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: *Catholic_list; father_elijah; nickcarraway; SMEDLEYBUTLER; Siobhan; Lady In Blue; attagirl; ...
Catholic Discussion Ping!

Please notify me via Freepmail if you would like to be added to or removed from the Catholic Discussion Ping list.

7 posted on 01/31/2004 10:01:56 AM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: livius
Thought some might also find this interesting...

Effects of Greek orthodox christian church fasting on serum lipids and obesity.

9 posted on 01/31/2004 10:11:29 AM PST by MarMema
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To: livius; american colleen; sinkspur; Lady In Blue; Salvation; CAtholic Family Association; narses; ..
The laws regulating abstinence were 'relaxed' but not changed. Here they are:

* * * * *

THE CODE OF CANON LAW: A TEXT AND COMMENTARY
IV THE OFFICE OF SANCTIFYING IN THE CHURCH
Canon Law Society of America -- © 1985

CHAPTER II
DAYS OF PENANCE

[cc. 1249--1253]


Purpose and Observance of Penitential Days

Canon 1249 -- All members of the Christian faithful in their own way are bound to do penance in virtue of divine law; in order that all may be joined in a common observance of penance, penitential days are prescribed in which the Christian faithful in a special way pray, exercise works of piety and charity, and deny themselves by fulfilling their responsibilities more faithfully and especially by observing fast and abstinence according to the norm of the following canons.

This entire section of the 1917 Code had been reformed by Paul VI on February 17, 1966 with the apostolic constitution Poenitemini (see bibliography following c. 1253). The five canons in this chapter of the Code are a summary of part of this document and must not be understood apart from it, especially the very rich discursive section of the document treating the history of penance and its role in the life of every Christian.

Penitential Days

Canon 1250 -- All Fridays through the year and the time of Lent are penitential days and times throughout the universal Church.


This canon is taken from Poenitemini, part III,


Days of Abstinence and Fasting

Canon 1251
-- Abstinence from eating meat or another food according to the prescriptions of the conference of bishops is to be observed on Fridays throughout the year unless they are solemnities; abstinence and fast are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and on the Friday of the Passion and Death of Our Lord Jesus Christ.


This canon is taken from Poenitemini, part III, 112. Poenitemini exempted holy days of obligation from Friday abstinence; this canon extends that exemption to all solemnities whether they are of obligation or not. The Code also gives the conference of bishops the power to substitute another penance to be observed on Fridays in place of abstinence from meat.

Neither Poenitemini nor the Code mentions fasting on Holy Saturday whereas The Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy (SC 109) states:

The paschal fast must be kept sacred. It should be celebrated everywhere on Good Friday, and where possible should be prolonged throughout Holy Saturday so that the faithful may attain the joys of the Sunday of the resurrection with uplifted and responsive minds.

Poenitemini adds the following explanation of abstinence and fast:

The law of abstinence forbids the use of meat, but not of eggs, the products of milk or condiments made of animal fat. The law of fasting allows only one full meal a day, but does not prohibit taking some food in the morning and evening, observing--as far as quantity and quality are concerned--approved local custom (III-1 & 2).

Obligation to Abstain/Fast

Canon 1252
-- All persons who have completed their fourteenth year are bound by the law of abstinence; all adults are bound by the law of fast up to the beginning of their sixtieth year. Nevertheless, pastors and parents are to see to it that minors who are not bound by the law of fast and abstinence are educated in an authentic sense of penance.


The completion of the fourteenth year means the day after one's fourteenth birthday. The beginning of the sixtieth year means the obligation ceases at midnight between the fifty-ninth birthday and the next day.

Poenitemini stated that the law of fast bound those who have completed their twenty-first year; the Code uses the term "adults," i.e., those who have completed their eighteenth year (c. 97, §1).

The admonition to pastors and parents to educate those of a lesser age in a true sense of penance is taken from Poenitemini and is new to the Code.

Discretion of Conference of Bishops

Canon 1253
-- It is for the conference of bishops to determine more precisely the observance of fast and abstinence and to substitute in whole or in part for fast and abstinence other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety.


The National Conference of Catholic Bishops in their pastoral statement of November 18, 1966 determined the following:

Catholics in the United States are obliged to abstain from the eating of meat on Ash Wednesday and on all Fridays during the season of Lent. They are also obliged to fast on Ash Wednesday and on Good Friday. Self-imposed observance of fasting on all weekdays of Lent is strongly recommended. Abstinence from flesh meat on all Fridays of the year is especially recommended to individuals and to the Catholic community as a whole.

The entire statement can be found in Canon Law Digest (CLD 6, 679--684).

Catholic Ping - let me know if you want on/off this list


19 posted on 01/31/2004 1:33:01 PM PST by NYer (Ad Jesum per Mariam)
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To: livius; Salvation; .45MAN
Fasting every Friday is *not* a lost rite in our household, I am happy to report.
43 posted on 02/01/2004 7:20:47 AM PST by dansangel (*PROUD to be a knuckle-dragging, toothless, inbred, right-wing, Southern, gun-toting Neanderthal *)
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To: livius
So fasting is now confined to a derisory two days of the year, and compulsory Friday abstinence has been replaced by a genteel and totally individualistic injunction to do some penitential act on a Friday - an injunction, incidentally, that most Catholics know nothing about. What had been a corporate mark of identity has been marginalised into an individualistic option.

Claptrap.

CHAPTER II : DAYS OF PENANCE Can. 1249 All Christ's faithful are obliged by divine law, each in his or her own way, to do penance. However, so that all may be joined together in a certain common practice of penance, days of penance are prescribed. On these days the faithful are in a special manner to devote themselves to prayer, to engage in works of piety and charity, and to deny themselves, by fulfilling their obligations more faithfully and especially by observing the fast and abstinence which the following canons prescribe.

Can. 1250 The days and times of penance for the universal Church are each Friday of the whole year and the season of Lent.

Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

Can. 1252 The law of abstinence binds those who have completed their fourteenth year. The law of fasting binds those who have attained their majority, until the beginning of their sixtieth year. Pastors of souls and parents are to ensure that even those who by reason of their age are not bound by the law of fasting and abstinence, are taught the true meaning of penance.

Can. 1253 The Episcopal Conference can determine more particular ways in which fasting and abstinence are to be observed. In place of abstinence or fasting it can substitute, in whole or in part, other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety.

The truth that this was just formally observed with little, if any, understanding of the connection twixt the profound spiritual truthfullness and necessity of fast/abstinence and the pharisaical observance is proved by how fast this practice was abandoned once reforms were instituted.

I,for one, love the reforms.

BTW, Me, my Bride (a convert from Congregationalis)m, and Me Kids are Friday Fish-heads every Friday year-round and this Lent I will be taking ought but water every Wednesday and Friday this Lent - (Didache).

44 posted on 02/01/2004 8:40:56 AM PST by Catholicguy (MT1618 Church of Peter remains pure and spotless from all leading into error, or heretical fraud)
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To: livius
Good post.

FYI for anyone interested ... E5 Men
The e5 man fasts for his bride to imitate Jesus, the Groom, as described by St. Paul in Ephesians Chapter 5 (from which the e5 is named) The incarnate God, Jesus, makes a bodily sacrifice for his bride, the Church, to present her to God the Father "without spot or wrinkle." (Eph 5:27) By fasting for our earthly bride and joining our sufferings to Christ's we co-redeem with him. We bring our brides to holiness and at the same time, because of our act of bodily love in unison with Christ, we too become without spot or wrinkle.

In short, by fasting for our earthly bride for her holiness we live out the essence of the gospel in a particular act. This act contains the whole DNA of the meaning of the gospel - to give up one's very body in love for another.

51 posted on 02/02/2004 7:12:38 AM PST by al_c
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