[Catholicguy]

fyi

[Just mythoughts]

Psalms 22 penned by King David, hundreds of years before the event, and spoken by Christ hanging on the cross.

[StonyBurk]

In my opinion some Jews accepted Jesus as Messiah though many did NOT because the prophecy of Messiah remained un-
fullfilled for so long--and Roman rule over Judah and
Jerusalem had lasted so long --and at the time--seemed
incapable of being removed. It is also difficult for a
people expecting Messiah to come as a conqueror -not as
a Babe.i.e. we humans tend to see mostly what we are looking
for--not necessarily what is. And,I believe, when the Romans
did NOT differentiat between the followers of that Rabbi from Galilee and most other Jews it aggravated the schism.

[Capriole]

This is a beautiful summation, and I very much appreciate you publishing it here. But if I were trying to explain why Jesus was accepted as the Messiah I would not use historical documentatino of His existence and work; I would concentrate more on the way Jesus fulfilled ancient prophecies about the coming of and operations of the Messiah. I would also point out that Jesus explicitly referred to Himself in terms that only the Messiah could use, and say that such a Person gave us the choice of believing that He was either insane, profoundly evil, or exactly what He said He was. He did not leave us the alternative of thinking Him just a very good man, because good men don't claim to be God. So we have a choice to make, and the evidence, incredible as it may be, is overwhelming that He is who He said He is.

[plain talk]

Thanks. If you have links to sites that contain more information along these lines regarding historical accounts, I'd appreciate it.

[Dave S]

Excuse me but where in this "historical" record is there anyone not associated with Christ (or a later member of the church) saying that He was resurrected from the dead or that he was the Messiah? Do you find any reference to Jesus in the Roman record, not in the reports of Christian apologists? The Emporer Constantine converted to Christianity in the third century for political reasons not as a matter of faith. I doubt that the Emporers really worried about Gods other than themselves.

As far as no one at the time saying he wasnt resurrected, the lack of evidence is not evidence. Do you doubt that the Sanhedrin and others didnt dispute the resurrection at the time. Paul was sent out to wipe out the Christians because they were spreading blasphemy. If EVERYONE in Judea knew that Christ was the risen Messiah, then why didnt they all become Christians? Are you saying that the average Jew was too dumb or hard hearted to recognize something that miraculous if everyone knew it? Get a grip. Christ rose from the dead but there is no reason to get bent out of shape because a Rabbi today says that this is a matter of faith, not of history.

The fact that you are constantly writing letters to the paper probably is what has caused them to think you are someone who is unhinged or a kook.

[tiamat]

Very interesting stuff.

There is no doubt that the Romans had good records documenting the Crucifixion. Some of those documents are in the Vatican Library right now.
So we can surmise: the execution of one Jesus of Nazereth ( aka Jeshua ben Joseph) IS an historical fact.

Does anyone here know:
Are there Roman records that document the body of Jesus having gone missing?

I am NOT a Christian, but this sort of thing fascinates me. I do not ask to mock or cast aspersians. I really am curious and would like to know.

Thank you.

Tia

[thinktwice]

Catholic prelates and monks had about 1400 years to gather, control, choose, comtemplate and rework biblical era tales before Guttenberg invented the printing press.

If we can't trust many of today's bishops, why should anyone trust those in earlier eras?

[CFIIIMEIATP737]

I read a book last year that might be of interest to you. It is "The Archko Volume" by Mahan. It is the result of research done in the 1800's in the Vatican's library. For the most part, the book is a compilation of official reports from Herod and Pilate to the Roman senate about Jesus. Two reports from Caiaphas to the Sanhedrin are in this book. These I found to be most interesting.

Thank you for your post.

[antiRepublicrat]

You are debating against the wrong claim. You are trying to make a case that Yeshua existed in the first place, while the God Squad was claiming historical doubt only for his purported resurrection.

[Salvation]

Ping!

[joesnuffy]

Hundreds of Jesus' miracles were witnessed by 'reliable witnesses' including many of the officer corps of the Roman guard....These reliable witnesses many religious Jews in high places of authority...also testified as to the truth of such events as healing the sick..giving sight to the blind...the total instantaneous cure of advanced leprosy and the raising of the dead.

The phony trial and lying witnesses were also well documented as was the crucifixion of Jesus
His death was witnessed and confirmed by Roman soldiers who pierced His side with a spear to see clear fluid run out (his heart had stopped pumping blood )
Roman guards were put on His tomb (the penalty for falling asleep on guard duty as a Roman soldier was instant death at the hands of a superior...Romans didn't fall asleep on guard duty)
The resurrected Jesus was also seen by many reliable witnesses...who later went to their deaths rather than sign phony papers that gave lie to and denied these miracles of Jesus..

If one had to try the case of whether Jesus was God or not...the evidence is there as are a multitude of reliable witnesses to the truth..and this is how we establish truth and reality..on the words of a number of reliable witnesses who have nothing to gain and everything to lose
in the world...for witnessing to that truth...

[jimt]

Let me see if I got this right.

Secular (Roman) records attest to the crucifixion of Jesus.

Secular (Roman) records do not attest to the resurrection of Jesus.

Religious (Christian) accounts attest to Jesus's resurrection.

[onedoug]

God is one.

[LiteKeeper]

read later

[Tantumergo]

Bump for an interesting thread!

Triple bump for the patience you have displayed in response to some who are challenged in the neuronal department.

;)