Vatican fine-tunes details of the Mass

Philadelphia Inquirer ^ | December 21, 2003 | David O'Reilly`

[NYer]

*"We worked really hard on our liturgy," said Imms, who has been laying her stole at the cross in recent weeks.*

Her stole??? Who gave it to her, for what purpose was it given, when - where - and why was it given? As for tieing stoles aroung the base of the crucifix, the pastor should deal with this immediately.

If these women want to be ordained as ministers, they should look elsewhere. As the pope has repeatedly said, it won't happen in the catholic church.

[Salvation]

**"extraordinary ministers of holy communion."**

Or doesn't the GIRM also say 'Extraordinary Eucharistic Ministers'?

[matrix2225]

If those women want serve in a church there are many wonderful covenants for nuns. They can serve as nuns, but hell will freeze before I would agree to see woman ordain as priest! Everything has its propose in life.

[johnb2004]

"I've always had the feeling that it's not my liturgy to change," he said. "It belongs to the whole [worldwide] community of the church."


As I have said before. One can go into a McDonald's anywhere in America and know what one is getting. The same is not true of Catholic Churches. You never know what brand of dissent you will be force fed.

[MudPuppy]

"Oh, my God," Rosengarten exclaimed. "What a shame."

and make sure this gentleman goes to confession for using the Lord's name in vain...and in print causing scandal to the faithful.

[NYer]

You never know what brand of dissent you will be force fed.

Lol ... it does change from one parish to another. What upsets me more than anything else, is to see it 'inflicted' on the unsuspecting. Since most cathoics trust their pastor to comply with church doctrine, they 'assume' that the mass he delivers is valid. Were more catholics to read the GIRM, I am certain they would go after him with pitchforks.

Is Your Mass Valid? Liturgical Abuse

[ninenot]

"Longstanding practice"....of the EEM's re-distributing hosts and re-pouring the Blood...

Compared to what? The "longstanding practice" of the Tridentine Rite? Geez, now 10 years is a "longstanding" term.

[karenbarinka]

You are too right about Catholic dissent creating mystery grab bag Masses for us masses. I travel a lot -- everytime I walk into a strange Catholic Church, I always feel like I'm joining the audience at Let's Make a Deal and we're all waiting to find out what's behind Door #1. An older mentor of mine laments this too and loves to tell good-old-days stories about being able to go to any Catholic Church anywhere in the world and pretty much always being assured of the consistency of McDonald's. Seems like once they threw out Latin, the Universal Church became the Tower of Babel.

[Antoninus]

This article is so full of ridiculous nuggets. I love it!

At St. Vincent's, for example, Rosengarten and other eucharistic ministers used to break the communion bread at the altar alongside the priest, and pour the consecrated wine into chalices for distribution.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this is a liturgical abuse--something never sanctioned by the Vatican or by the Archbishop of Philadelphia. Thus, it is an innovation that they themselves have imposed upon the Mass. I hope Cardinal Rigali cracks down on parishes like this in a big way.

"The image we wanted was of the table being prepared by members of the assembly and the presider, who are one," Rosengarten explained.

Presider? Good gravy! Can't you people even say the word "priest"?!

But because the new instruction restricts the breaking and pouring to the priest, Mackle has advised St. Vincent's that it must conform.

Oh, cry me a river. It's like they're demanding that these folks donate a kidney or something.

A few even wept when the parish made the changes.

Changes? What changes? The "changes" were made by these liturgical terrorists. The Vatican is insisting that they now abide by the rules.

About 25 members of the parish have begun protesting the Vatican's changes by wrapping purple stoles, or scarves, at the base of the sanctuary cross after communion.

Good for them. The priest should read them the riot act. There are plenty of perfectly good Protestant churches for these bozos to seek out and attempt to coopt.

For three years, feminists at St. Vincent's had been wearing the stoles to Mass

Funny, I thought one was supposed to cease being a "feminist" once they entered church. Clearly, these radicals put being a "feminist" ahead of being a Catholic. They should be removed from any position of authority they hold in the parish immediately.

Support for women's ordination runs high at St. Vincent's,

So the pastor there has raised up a nice crop of dissenters. Good for him. I hope the Cardinal read this article and takes the appropriate action.

"We worked really hard on our liturgy," said Imms, who has been laying her stole at the cross in recent weeks.

It's not "your liturgy," lady.

The scary thing is, I think this Pat Imms person might be a French/Spanish teacher I had in my Catholic grade school right up the road from Germantown. She'd have to be about 70 years old by now ... which is the right age for the blue-haired radical set.

Viva il Papa! Viva the new GIRM! If it's making the AmChurch radicals weep, it is indeed a great thing.

[RobbyS]

So many Catholics have lost the sense of tradition. All this had to do was explain the origins of the confessional and the significance of holy water. Instead she has to leave them with the impression that everything old is arbitrary.

[old and tired]

I hope Cardinal Rigali cracks down on parishes like this in a big way.

I'd bet if Rigali cracks down on them, they'd declare themselves independent. The whole reason the Inquirer highlighted St. Vincent's is that the parish attracts hippies and homosexuals from all around Philadelphia. There is very little in that parish that would be recognized as Catholic.

If St. Vincent's cracks down on abuses, it will die a quick death. The next parish up, which is in a slightly better neighborhood, has already been twinned and will probably be closed shortly.

If that is your old school teacher, she's sure to be in good company - St. Vincent's is loaded with current and former St. Joe nuns and almost all of them taught at one time or another.

[Gerish]

"The image we wanted was of the table being prepared by members of the assembly and the presider, who are one," Rosengarten explained.

It is exactly the wackos above who SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN ALLOWED to become an EM in the first place. Notice the wording - image ("we wanted"), table, assembly and presider all in one sentence! Just love how these people want to whole Mass to evolve around them!

[ArrogantBustard]

All theological arguments aside, I've long held that the best practical argument against ordaining women is the nature of women who clamour for ordination ...

[johnb2004]

The funny thing is I am not old enough to remember the latin mass. I have never assisted at a latin mass. Almost every mass I attend has some abuse, illicit act, or heresy. I get liberated nuns giving homolies. I get liturgy committee members acting as if they were the pope. I get the forced friendliness of introducing myself before mass like a cocktail party. I get the trendy, left wing hand holding. It really is all about celebrating ourselves. The priest wears a cordless microphone on his head like a madonna concert. He walks down the aisle like phil donohue.

Why do so many people who attend a Catholic Church seem so liberal compared to the population at large. I know western society is at a new low, but by middle class standards I think the average "catholic" is a lefty.

[Desdemona]

All theological arguments aside, I've long held that the best practical argument against ordaining women is the nature of women who clamour for ordination ...

Amen to that.

[NYer]

Notice the wording - image ("we wanted"), table, assembly and presider all in one sentence! Just love how these people want to whole Mass to evolve around them!

Yes, like this woman did before them.

(Sorry - a picture is worth a thousand words and a few dropped jaws).

Are you familiar with the story of Mary Ramerman? Her ordination occured on Saturday November 17, 2001, in a breakaway catholic community in Rochester, N.Y. They utilized an Old Catholic Bishop for the ordination. Community Calls Woman to Priesthood .

It's really quite simple. The wackos have many other church groups that will take them in and ordain them. Obviously, they are more interested in trying to shatter THE catholic church rather than do as Mary Ramerman, who simply left. (No matter how many times I see it, the sight of a woman dressed in clerical garb, just makes my skin crawl).

[k omalley]

There was a time some years ago when I favored ordination for women. Then all of a sudden it occurred to me that the women demanding ordination were not holy women. Many of them are pro-choice, pro-homosexual marriage and participate in strange rituals. I knew a woman well who wanted to be a priest. She admitted that abortion simply wasn't an issue for her, she held WomenChurch services at her home where she dressed in Druid robes. She really had issues with men. Something else I noticed, churches that have permitted ordination of women very quickly started abandoning the truth of the Gospel.

[diamond6]

""Oh, my God," Rosengarten exclaimed. "What a shame."

and make sure this gentleman goes to confession for using the Lord's name in vain...and in print causing scandal to the faithful. "

I totally agree with you. People who get so hung up on "titles" really turn me off. And frankly, I think, as a Catholic, some of these Eucharist Ministers take away the holiness of the Eucharist. I see young girls in very short skirts giving communion, guys in jeans giving away the Eucharist and it really takes the sacredness away. Just my opinion.