[Heartbreak of Psoriasis]

Olson's book is available here:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0898709504/qid=1071827107//ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i0_xgl14/002-1745116-8828006?v=glance&s=books&n=507846

[Ff--150]

Many of these Fundamentalists—including "non-denominational" Christians, "Bible-believing" Christians, "born-again" Christians, Baptists, and Assembly of God members—are antagonistic toward the Catholic Church and her teachings, and a majority of them believe in some form of dispensationalism

As you no doubt have observed conservative values have been attacked viscously. Christians values are going to be attacked likewise.

These are a few code-names they are using, along with fundies, PreMillennial Dispensationalism, and evangelicals.

You suspected this was coming, maybe it's here...

[Gil4]

Article is long on promises, short on biblical, historical, and theological evidence.

[IGNATIUS]

I can understand the appeal of "rapture" teachings. One is just whisked away and avoids Tribulation persecution,no physical death,and since "once saved always saved"----there's no future Judgement.Sounds pretty cool!

But such is not the teaching of historical Christianity.Neither Romans,Eastern Orthodox,nor early Protestant Reformers believed any such thing.EO's consider such belief dangerous and presumptious because it dilutes one's focus upon Repentance, Judgement, and seeking God's Mercy.

[new cruelty]

my head hurts.

[GirlShortstop]

...LaHaye said, "We've [himself and Jenkins] created a series of books about the greatest cosmic event that will happen in the history of the world."  What is that "greatest cosmic event"?  The Incarnation?  The Cross?  The Resurrection?  No, the Rapture -- a modern, man-made belief based on a distorted Christology and an anemic ecclesiology.

Notable bump.

[jboot]

Hmmm, I'm one of those "Evangelical Non-Denominational Bible-Believing Born-Again" folks and I don't hold to pre-trib or pre-mil. For that matter, I'm not fully sold on Dispensationalism either. I guess the labels need better glue.

At any rate, the premise of the article seems to be "these people are dangerous to the Catholic Church" but it fails to prove any such thing. Does it matter what they believe, since they are not part of the RCC? Or is the real concern that the Catholic laity may begin to accept these doctrines? If that is the case, I'd worry a lot more about the "DaVinci Code", with 7 million copies sold and growing fast. At least "Left Behind" is free of any Gnostic heresy.

[Conservative til I die]

Myth #1: The Rapture actually exists.

These dispensationalist, "end times" books represent the worst of gutter theology.

[redgolum]

Both my father and I have read many of the Left Behind books. After my dad finished the first one, he called me up to talk about it. We both thought it was an OK story, but HORRIBLE theology.

The biggest temptation when reading end times literature is to adopt a "Holy Huddle" mentality. "The end of the world is coming! Don't worry, we will be raptured out!"

I have read Darby and other advocates of the rapture. As a dyed in the wool LCMS guy, I tend to get a little skeptical when someone comes up with a brand new revelation by twisting around the words in Revelation and Daniel. In short, the rapture is a fairy tale. Yes, Jesus is coming again, and there will be much suffering before hand. No, we do not get a ticket out of the trouble before hand. Those who hold to this, need to look at the origins in the 18th century.

[LiteKeeper]

Pre-Trib, Pre-Mil, Evangelical bump

[Tax-chick]

Later

[jjm2111]

Whoops. Wrong Thread. :) Wow, reading that made my head spin. BTW, Merry Christmas to all FReeper Christians.

[bobjam]

Some observations:

1) "Do not criticize the speck in your brother's eye until you have removed the plank from your own." I would like to see the author of this article apply the same level of research into Rome's Mariology.

2) Contemporary Christians often have a voracious appetite for escatology. Many recent converts jump into it head first when they should be reading and applying the Gospels. Escatology is not for newcomers to the Faith. Pastors and more experienced Christians need to do a better job of guiding converts in their new life.

3) Revelation must be approached through the Gospel. Jesus flat out stated that he will return in glory to judge the living and the dead. He described it when he said "What you did for the least of these, you did for Me". This view is affirmed by the Apostles and Nicene Creeds.

4) If we Christians remain patient, we will all eventually find out what will happen in the end times. Jesus wins- what more do we need to know.

[Uri’el-2012]

Very interesting article ; what does it mean ?

One it means that many members of the roman church are reading
the Left Behind series and then are actually reading the Holy Word of G-d.

This is dangerous to the Corporate position because as people read
the Holy Word of G-d they begin to understand the position presented
by the Corporation created in Nice by Constantine in 325 AD has many
flaws.

Second I notice the the author of this article descends into the lowest
form of argument (ad hominum) directed at the man, not the thought.

Third the author so blinded by his Corporate world view that he fails
to appreciate that the Blessed Hope of the pre Nicene church was
Jewish as was the Christ. If one reads the canons of Nice you will see
the rejection of all things Jewish, ( with it's concomitant anti-Semitism)
starting with the Death and Resurrection to the Christ
and it's creation of the pagan celebration of Easter and the rejection
of the L-rd's death and Resurrection on Pesach and hagMatzoh and First Fruits

The most striking point in the eschatology of the ante-Nicene age is the
prominent chiliasm, or millennarianism, that is the belief of a visible reign
of Christ in glory on earth with the risen saints for a thousand years, before
the general resurrection and judgment. This belief was spiritualized following
the Council of Nice so as to not insult the Emperor. This led to greater
spiritualization. This lead to placing the wisdom of man ( or men in Rome)
as a greater authority than the Holy Word of G-d.

For a study of the first three books of Revelation see this post:

Have you ever been confused by the book of Revelation?

a bondslave to the Christ

chuck

[Cvengr]

MYTH 2 —“Catholic beliefs about the end times are quite similar to those of Fundamentalists such as Tim LaHaye.”

In fairness, here is a link to the position of Tim LaHaye, which even if disagree with provides a nice listing of pertinent Scriptural references on the topic.

http://www.tyndale.edu/dirn/articles/rapture.html

[IGNATIUS]

All who've lived before experienced separation of soul and body---and such will most likely be the fate of today's pilgrims even though the Lord might finally indeed return to "judge the living and the dead" during our watch. But whenever that awesome time ending event occurs we meanwhile seek "a good defense before the Dread Judgement Seat of Christ" (liturgy of St.John Chrystostom).Eastern Orthodoxy teaches one to focus upon repentance and being prepared for either event.

The courage of those heroic martyrs who were torn apart,burned alive,beheaded,eaten by animals,starved,frozen,etc bears upon one's mind and heart. This two millenium history spans those who would not place even a little bit of incense on Caesar's altar to gain a more few years,those millions who died under militant Islam,and tens of millions who suffered the Christian Holocaust under Communism this past century.

So, why especially should Christians who just happen to be alive when the Tribulation starts be given a free pass?