Five Myths About the Rapture

Crisis Magazine ^ | November 2003 | Carl E. Olson

[Thinkin' Gal]

This is a fundamental threshold issue. The Bible tells us flatly that BEFORE we read the Scripture we must FIRST understand that no matter of prophecy is subject to private interpretation.

??? Do you mean the verses that explain that the prophets did not just pen their own words and ideas, but rather were instructed by the Spirit of God?

2 Peter 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 2 Peter 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

What, was Daniel a freelancing kook?

Daniel 9:2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.

Shame on Daniel, understanding Jeremiah's prophecy without a consensus of scholars! He should have known better!

[irishtenor]

He didn't even use a Pope!

[Gamecock]

*** We don't go invading their threads and forums in order to tell them how they're going to burn without Tradition.***


Not to quibble, but yes you do. Sources available on request.

Just the other day I was minding my own business on a Calvinist thread and was called a Heretic by one of your Catholic brothers.

[Calvinist_Dark_Lord]

Exactly. You get some guy with little or no formal religious training, and all of a sudden they've "discovered" a hidden doctrine, central to Christianity, that everyone else just happened to miss for the last 1950 years? Riiiight....

Hal Lindsey, (the Late, Great Planet Earth guy) was a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary, which, agree or disagree with their theology, isn't exactly a diploma mill. That makes matters all the worse, because the guy SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER!

In light of his "testimony" and "Christian Witness", i'd $uspect more ba$e motive$ for Lind$ey rather than $imple bad theolgy, if you can $ee What i am $aying.

[rdb3]

Just the other day I was minding my own business on a Calvinist thread and was called a Heretic by one of your Catholic brothers.

I bet I know who that was without even seeing the post(s).

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

****the Rapture -- a modern, man-made belief based on a distorted Christology and an anemic ecclesiology.****


Interesting. I heard a man on short wave radio claim that the rapture was a jesuit invention.
He was neo-nazi anti-catholic and anti-rapture claiming the British Israel theory.

Not all BAPTISTS have bought into the rapture theory. I don't believe the Southern Baptists have endorsed that view as they seem to believe the presbyterian amillenialist view.
However the writings of C I Schofield are making inroads in the SBC.
Read the writings of John R. Rice(Independent Baptist) on the end times. He believes in the rapture but makes no claims for what might happen after it. Now read the writings of Curtis Hudston, who now is head of the Independent Baptists. His end time writings are almost pure Schofield.
If you read Schofield's booklet on Dispensational Theology first then read Kirban, LaHay, Van Impe and Lindsey and Chick Publications you will find them all repeating the same things like little peas in a pod.
"Yes sir folks! It looks like the Middle east is lining up according to prophecy right now! The end times may be just around the corner! Better send in your money now"!
They have been saying this for the last 50 years!

[alexandria]

Yehoshua at the time of the seventh plague is announcing that time for earth has come to an end, and the second coming follows immediately. So, Yehoshua does not come back to earth until after all seven plagues have been poured out on the wicked. The faithful are NOT removed at any point prior to these plagues,

I agree, in part, that yes thee second coming Christ's return to EARTH does not happen until after the 7th bowl judgment. However, the rapture is a separate event from the 2nd coming.

1 Thessalonians 4 13:17
13 We believe that Jesus died and rose again. And because of what Jesus did, God will bring back with him those who have died.
14 We tell you what the Lord said. We who are still alive when the Lord comes, will not go ahead of those who have died.
15 The Lord himself will come down from heaven. There will be a shout, a great angel will speak, and God's loud horn or trumpet will be blown.

Notice that it says "a trumpet will be blown" not at the last trumpet blown.

16 Then we who are still alive on earth will be caught up together with those who were dead. We will be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

Note that the lord is met by the resurrected and those who are "still alive when the lord comes." Also note he meets them "in the air" he does NOT at this time, arrive IN the world.
This is where the church , or "bride" is collected and taken for the marriage supper. after the seal and bowl judgments are complete THEN the lord will return with the saints to set up his 1000 year reign, commencing shortly after the "great white throne judgment" that will be used to resurrect and judge the saints and people that lived in the Old Testament age.

And then we will be with the Lord forever!

1 Thessalonians 5
1 My brothers, you do not need anyone to write to you about the day or the year when these things will happened
2 You yourselves surely know that the day of the Lord will come just like a person who comes to steal in the night.
3 When people are saying, `Everything is quiet and safe,' they will be destroyed. It will all happen very quickly. And there will be no way out.

It goes on to warn the people to be vigilant in their belief in the lord and to encourage and help one another in spreading the word and love for the lord. I find this next part to be especially interesting.

11 My brothers, we beg you, tell this to people who do not do what they should do. Talk to those who fear, and say something that will make them strong. Help those who are weak. Be patient with all people.
24 I give you this order from the Lord. Read this letter to all the Christian brothers.

"I give you this order from the lord." Who instructs them to read this letter to all the Cristian brothers. Not all the churches, priests , prophets, ministers, or pastors but to their "Christian brothers" in Christ.

[drstevej]

***Hal Lindsey, (the Late, Great Planet Earth guy) was a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary***

Nope. Hal attended Dallas Seminary but was never a professor. In fact, he did not have an undergraduate degree prior to DTS and was admitted as a special student. I think he was a riverboat captain prior to seminary.

Ryrie, Pentecost or Walvoord would be better examples of classic dispensational professors at Dallas. I studied under all three. You are right it is not a diploma mill. The four year Master's Program there was far more rigorous than my four year engineering degree at Georgia Tech. Much more work.

Lindsey's LGPE happened to be the popularizing book that caught fire with the public.

[GirlShortstop]

"Yes sir folks!  It looks like the Middle east is lining up according to prophecy right now!  The end times may be just around the corner!  Better send in your money now"!  They have been saying this for the last 50 years!

Good post, and a LOL... you have a way with words!
M E R R Y   C H R I S T M A S

[Palladin]

My daughter and her family have fallen into one of these obscure Southern Baptist independent cults. Ever hear of Peter Ruckman and his Pensacola Bible Institute?

It saddens me that my grandchildren are being indoctrinated with hatred of all races other than white, and the boys are displaying a definite anti-female stance.

Ruckman teaches there will be no women in heaven. This being due to the "fact" of his "inspired revelation" that all females wil be transformed into 33 year old males at the resurrection of the body.

Any suggestions from anyone on how to rescue them from this cult?

[marbren]

Don't worry
Jesus said "don't worry"

[marbren]

Drstevej, would you agree that understsnding the difference between Israel and the church is the key to understanding prophecy?

[marbren]

I am also LCMS. I agree with all church teaching except for replacement theology. Both of my last two pastors and I got along well as we did not argue about the issue. To me Holy Communion and Baptism in the LCMS is as close to scriptural teaching as you can find.

[drstevej]

***Drstevej, would you agree that understsnding the difference between Israel and the church is the key to understanding prophecy?***

Yes. That and a consistent normal hermeneutic where the promises to Abraham are not spiritualized.

[marbren]

When Jesus says "Thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" does he refer to a literal future millennial kingdom on earth?

[drstevej]

It is my understanding that this refers to the coming Millennial Kingdom (literal and future). As such it is still a relevant prayer.

[PayNoAttentionManBehindCurtain]

These dispensationalist, "end times" books represent the worst of gutter theology.

I want to point out something here. You are always one of the first people to go whining about "anti-catholics", "bigots" and "cathoic bashers", and "catholic haters". I see you have done it on this thread also. But you go and post stuff like this about others beliefs..????

I don't think the above quote makes you a bigot or anti anything, that is not my point your comment does not offend me, I am secure in my beliefs and only feel pity for those who do not share them. But the comment does make you a hypocrite, given the whining you do about others. Just wanted to point this out to you:) Becky

[ET(end tyranny)]

The point is, that people are not spared the tribulation.

1 Thessalonians 4 13:17
14 We tell you what the Lord said. We who are still alive when the Lord comes, will not go ahead of those who have died.

Still alive. Meaning that some have perished. (the wicked/tares) The FIRST catching up or gathering is of the wicked for destruction. They are gathered first, thus the righteous endure the tribulation.

The tribulation IS the judgement, you CAN'T escape it.

[snerkel]

Can you provide an example of this, I didn't see any ad hominem. Thanks.

An example: "LaHaye has not only revealed himself to be an anti-Catholic polemicist but a theologian with a seriously skewed view of God’s salvific work." {found in the 7th paragraph of The 5th Myth}

The rest of your post is irredeemable.

Now that comment was a perfect example of a ad hom. It is as if you are stating, "I figured that you couldn't possibly get it right, so I ignored your comment."