In the beginning was Calvinism

unknown | Steve Schlissel

[Gamecock]

An interesting read from our Messianic friends:

The Synagogue of Christ by Steve Schlissel Messianic Jewish pastor Messiah's Congregation, Brooklyn, New York.

The church wasn't born at Pentecost. It was Bar Mitzvah'd. No small matter, this. The church had a long, albeit dotted, history by the time the Spirit in Christ's fullness fell, and a glorious, albeit difficult, future. By Pentecost, the church, because of its history, its providentially-ordained organization and the Holy Spirit's promised guidance, was well-prepared to fulfill its function in the world.

The Belgic Confession, in Article XXVII, states, "We believe and profess one catholic or universal Church...This Church has been from the beginning of the world, and will be to the end thereof..." It has not, however, always had the same form. In the Garden of Eden God identified and separated the church (then consisting of two) using the essential elements, Word and Sacrament, Promise and Token, which would be present throughout the church's history, in some form or another. Our first parents were created to understand themselves and all things else in terms of a word. They had received the defining Word of God; they had heard the anti-word of the serpent. Choosing the devil's definitions, they had broken covenant with their Creator and entered into league with the destroyer, becoming co-pretenders with him to the throne.

God was not about to forsake His purposes, or to quickly formulate a "Plan B." He graciously and forcefully took back Adam and Eve-He redeemed them-by placing hostility between them and their new master (the Antithesis), by promising in their hearing the incarnation of the conquering, suffering Messiah (the Protevangelium, first proclamation of the Gospel), and by clothing them with God-provided coverings (the "Sacrament"), indicating in the clearest terms that their fig leaves (their instinctive effort at self-atonement/covering) were wholly inadequate and unacceptable. It is God who saves. Calvinism did not originate in Geneva; it is found in Eden. God's people, the covenant line, would henceforth be the people redeemed by Him to live, once again, in terms of His Word.

Calvinists are not the "church" founded by John Knox in Scotland. Knox founded no "church", but a Denomination. We are not the "church" founded by the Protestant Reformers. The Reformers founded no "church", but a Reformation. We are not the "church" founded by the Popes at Rome. No "pope" has founded any "church", just a (false) Administration. We are not the "church" founded by the Apostles at Pentecost. The Apostles founded no "church", but a Dispensation. We are not the "church" founded by Moses at Sinai. Moses founded no "church", but a covenanted Theonomic Congregation.

Calvinists are the Church founded by God in the very Garden of Eden. We are the Covenant Line of God's People, redeemed by Him to live in terms of His Word. We have stood the test of Time. And the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against us.

[ladyinred]

Omalley, I am a lifelong protestant, and you are correct that those questions exist to some degree, but there is no way anyone can answer them without starting WW3. There are enough wars on this religion forum already. I am surprised at the amount of hostility among those who claim to be Christians actually.

[ladyinred]

Sorry, should have mentioned that although those questions might exist, they aren't really that important to salvation of the soul. A lot of them are doctrines of men that make little difference in the large scheme of things except in people's minds!

[CARepubGal]

LOL! Now I will have that song in my head. Thanks! (They're coming to take me away Ha Ha!). Did you see K-Pax by any chance? ;-)

[ladyinred]

Why do all of you dislike each other so much? I for the life of me don't understand this animosity between Catholics and protestants on here!

I thought it was bad on the political forum here, but this religion boards are where the real battles are. It is a shame since we all worship the same God. I had no idea this war was going on! For the record, I think that if You believe Jesus is Lord you are a Christian. That is the simple Gospel that man has made so complicated.

Oh well, carry on. I mostly lurk, it seems safer! :-)

[Wrigley]

There are some RCs here that do not agree that we worship the same God.

[Uri’el-2012]

Why do all of you dislike each other so much? I for the life of me don't understand this animosity between Catholics and protestants on here!

I thought it was bad on the political forum here, but this religion boards are where the real battles are. It is a shame since we all worship the same God. I had no idea this war was going on! For the record, I think that if You believe Jesus is Lord you are a Christian. That is the simple Gospel that man has made so complicated.

Oh well, carry on. I mostly lurk, it seems safer! :-)

144 posted on 11/16/2003 12:32 AM MST by ladyinred (Talk about a revolution, look at California!!! We dumped Davis!!!)

Your statement is not neutral and loving.

You use a capital letter to start catholic and a lower case letter for protestants. Bias ?

Your use of the word protestants for those followers of the Christ who do not protest

but merely recognize only the Christ as the head of the "called out ones".

Acts 17:11 Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the
Thessalonians, for they received the message with great
eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if
what Paul said was true.

a bondslave to the Christ

chuck

[nobdysfool]

The point is THEY (PCUSA) claim to be Calvinist. Disown them all you want, but how do I know who is telling the truth, whose interpretations are correct, who represents the true faith?

You might try actually reading and studying Calvin's works, and read the full text of the Synod of Dordt, for starters. Then you might have a basis from which to make a determination. That is, if you really understand what they say, and could allow your mind to see their reasons for their conclusions.

[dangus]

O no... My housemate raved about that movie so I went to see it. Every line of dialogue was uniquely and distinctly excruciating! O well... :)

[dangus]

Well, that sounds all nice and that, but words actually have *meanings*.

[dangus]

Well, first off, now you're falling into the trap of using extra-biblical writings as a test of authenticity. Sure, there are arguments laid out *based* on scripture, but, that's all the Catholic Magisterium is. The main difference is that you don't agree with the Catholic Magisterium's conclusions.

Secondly, It would be fantastically vain of me to judge on my own poorly-informed reading of the Canons of Dordt to judge that PCUSA is wrong in their interpretations and I'm right. Unless someone in PCUSA distances themselves from such canons (as Bp Robinson distanced himself from scripture), I'm obliged to believe that they are sincerely struggling to maintain them. In my quick read of Dordt, and only marginal knowledge of the PCUSA, I do not immediately recognize any inherent conflict. It doesn't seem like you disagree so much on the council of Dordt, but on the practical application of the theology in Dordt.

Plus, going back to the original point: Who is a newcomer to follow? I'm supposed to judge between the intellectual leaders of two churches, and find who stays closes to scripture, the canons of Dordt, and who knows what else?

Let's say that here I stand, a new, inexperienced believer who has decided to turn my entire life over to Christ. You tell me on which basis I should pick PCA over PCUSA or SBC or ECUSA or ACMS or UMC or UCC or DOC or UUA... If you want to assert your church has existed since the dawn of time, show me the evidence. One church has actually traced its annointed authority all the way back to Adam, but it's not the PCA.

[mdmathis6]

The Locusts have a "built" in instinct to do what they do. The Holy Spirit builds God's laws into Christians so they act en mass as a body (where-ever they are...even with two or three gathered in Christ's name), to act as a counter to evil in the World. Is that *meaning* enough for you?

[dangus]

No, I mean the word, "church" has a meaning. "Assembly," "ekklesia." And that simply isn't what the word means.

[dangus]

...and like I demonstrated in post #9... we're not witnessing this acting in unison. There's no consensus of doctrine, no prescription of moral behavior, no common form of worship found among the various denominations. There is still required of us a spiritual discernment, to help us identify what is divinely inspired, and what is motivated from lesser instincts. And that's why Peter was commanded to "shepherd" the flock: to provide such guidance.

[Jerry_M]

Do you know why it is that Southern Baptists condemn the recent homo-ordination by Episcopalians while the UMC celebrates it? The greatest reason for this difference is in our roots.

[xzins]

Do you know why it is that Southern Baptists condemn the recent homo-ordination by Episcopalians while the UMC celebrates it?

Jerry, there is an inaccuracy that I hope you'll correct.

The UMC Official "Book of Discipline" says that "homosexuality is incompatible with Christian teaching." It says that homosexuals will not be ordained in nor appointed to our churches.

These have been the official positions of the UMC for years. Each 4 year conference we reaffirm our positions, and this year we will bring under even more control the liberals who pretend to speak for the denomination.

The only representative of the beliefs of the denomination is the Book of Discipline.

But that doesn't mean we don't have some housecleaning to do in terms of personnel. What makes it more difficult for us is that we meet only once every 4 years while the SBC meets every year.

[OLD REGGIE]

That's exactly my point. They believed they were right, and even though sanctionned, they upheld unity with the apostolic church.

They didn't "obey" the Pope.

But instead, the Protestants chose war and whine about the fact that the Church fought back.

You have an interesting slant on history.

[OLD REGGIE]

Catholics claim:

Pope Leo XIII "We hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty"

Calvinists: No you don't.

[CARepubGal]

One church has actually traced its annointed authority all the way back to Adam, but it's not the PCA. Would that church be the Antiochian/Russian/Greek/Other 4 Patriarchs (brain fade) Orthodox Churches? :-) They present a pretty compelling case.......

[dangus]

Hey, the RCC *does* consider the sacraments of the Eastern Orthodox to be valid, so yes. And we all agree on every issue I posted. You hafta admit, compared to whether divorce is permissible, the controversies over the Filioque and the use of leavened bread are pretty dang small.

And the Eastern Orthodox Church is one church. The various national churches (patriarchs) all in perfect communion and doctrinal accord.

[dangus]

>> They didn't "obey" the Pope.

So? You really seem to have a difficult time with the notion that Catholics don't believe the Pope is God. I've already the posted the difference between infallible, eternal authority and temporal authority about a dozen times, including once in this thread. Frankly, I'm getting kinda tired of it.