In the beginning was Calvinism

unknown | Steve Schlissel

[Gamecock]

An interesting read from our Messianic friends:

The Synagogue of Christ by Steve Schlissel Messianic Jewish pastor Messiah's Congregation, Brooklyn, New York.

The church wasn't born at Pentecost. It was Bar Mitzvah'd. No small matter, this. The church had a long, albeit dotted, history by the time the Spirit in Christ's fullness fell, and a glorious, albeit difficult, future. By Pentecost, the church, because of its history, its providentially-ordained organization and the Holy Spirit's promised guidance, was well-prepared to fulfill its function in the world.

The Belgic Confession, in Article XXVII, states, "We believe and profess one catholic or universal Church...This Church has been from the beginning of the world, and will be to the end thereof..." It has not, however, always had the same form. In the Garden of Eden God identified and separated the church (then consisting of two) using the essential elements, Word and Sacrament, Promise and Token, which would be present throughout the church's history, in some form or another. Our first parents were created to understand themselves and all things else in terms of a word. They had received the defining Word of God; they had heard the anti-word of the serpent. Choosing the devil's definitions, they had broken covenant with their Creator and entered into league with the destroyer, becoming co-pretenders with him to the throne.

God was not about to forsake His purposes, or to quickly formulate a "Plan B." He graciously and forcefully took back Adam and Eve-He redeemed them-by placing hostility between them and their new master (the Antithesis), by promising in their hearing the incarnation of the conquering, suffering Messiah (the Protevangelium, first proclamation of the Gospel), and by clothing them with God-provided coverings (the "Sacrament"), indicating in the clearest terms that their fig leaves (their instinctive effort at self-atonement/covering) were wholly inadequate and unacceptable. It is God who saves. Calvinism did not originate in Geneva; it is found in Eden. God's people, the covenant line, would henceforth be the people redeemed by Him to live, once again, in terms of His Word.

Calvinists are not the "church" founded by John Knox in Scotland. Knox founded no "church", but a Denomination. We are not the "church" founded by the Protestant Reformers. The Reformers founded no "church", but a Reformation. We are not the "church" founded by the Popes at Rome. No "pope" has founded any "church", just a (false) Administration. We are not the "church" founded by the Apostles at Pentecost. The Apostles founded no "church", but a Dispensation. We are not the "church" founded by Moses at Sinai. Moses founded no "church", but a covenanted Theonomic Congregation.

Calvinists are the Church founded by God in the very Garden of Eden. We are the Covenant Line of God's People, redeemed by Him to live in terms of His Word. We have stood the test of Time. And the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against us.

[lizbet]

Why on earth would you like to boot Rick Warren out on his rear end? Because he accepts that every person has a free will?

This SBC gal will never be a Calvinist. Kindly keep your remarks about me being a believer in free will to yourself. I have had many discussions about it and I won't change.

[CARepubGal]

How did you personalize this so much? Could it be that God is convicting you somehow? The SBC HAS Calvinist Roots like it or not. Why do you want to throw free will into the discussion? I dislke Warren for his "purpose Driven" (as opposed to Christ Driven) Life. Marketing plans are great for a cookie company but abhorrent in a church. Market driven churches are tossed to and fro with every wind (paraphrased James 1:5)

[Wrigley]

This SBC gal will never be a Calvinist.

Well, then the SBC will leave you.

Kindly keep your remarks about me being a believer in free will to yourself. I have had many discussions about it and I won't change.

When were you mentioned before? Or do you think so much of yourself that if the idea of arminian freewill is reputed, you think we're talking personally about you?

[OLD REGGIE]

Actually, what it does is demonstrate that the "Reformation" was sinful. If the early Protestants were right, they should've done what the Jesuits did: Continue within the church to promulgate their viewpoints until they are adopted by the Church.

It is interesting that you should use the Jesuits in your example, the same group which was formed to hunt down and see to the disposition of (usually death) of those terrible Protestants.

How did the Jesuits continue within the church after being banned by Pope Clement XIV? Certainly not by obedience to the Pope. Fifth column?

[nobdysfool]

"You left one out: Can priests molest small boys?"

I happen to think it stands on its own, even to Calvinists, as a uniquely infantile posting, especially after people have seen it on 60,000 threads. It's pretty much the universal response whenever gamecock or his kind have nothing intelligent to say.

What you call infantile, we call a serious problem that we have yet to see your church truly address. People may have seen it on 60,000 threads, but maybe it will take another 60,000 before it finally sinks in that the only solution is to run these perverts out of the church, expose them to the world for what they are, and cleanse the stain they have left behind. Silence in this case is assent. If your church is to have ANY credibility, and if you want to have God's blessing, you must do so, God is not mocked, and He's not fooled by the coverups, the shuffling, and the refusal to face it squarely and actually DO somnething about it.

[lizbet]

No, I am not personalize this so much. Just wanted to warn you that I am not open to discussion about Calvinism and save your time and typing.

Thank you for answering my question about Rick Warren.

[lizbet]

Well, then, if the SBC leaves me, then fine. Jesus hasn't left me and I haven't left Him, so I am fine.

I wanted to save people time and trouble typing back remarks to me about Calvinism, that is all. I am not personalize it at all.

[Wrigley]

You came to the debate, we didn't come looking for you....

[rdb3]

This "church" needs no intermediary other than Jesus Christ...

I've always wondered why people will repeat what their "church" says rather than what the Lamb has Said.

[Gamecock]

[sheltonmac]

Thanks for the BUMP. Has the church existed since the beginning? It makes sense when you consider that ALL believers are believers because it was thus ordained before the foundation of the world. ALL believers throughout history (B.C. and A.D.) are God's chosen people.

[CARepubGal]

Umm why even bother to open dialog when you are slamming the doors shut? Inconsistent and a bit confusing. How hard is it to simply ask ONE question and not play "Slap the Calvinist" for you? :shaking head:

[dangus]

>> How did the Jesuits continue within the church after being banned by Pope Clement XIV? Certainly not by obedience to the Pope. Fifth column?

That's exactly my point. They believed they were right, and even though sanctionned, they upheld unity with the apostolic church. The canonization of several of these "5th columnists" as you call them should have been perceived as an indication of a righteous way to seek reform in the church. But instead, the Protestants chose war and whine about the fact that the Church fought back.

[dangus]

>> are you in a position to judge that Protestantism historically has not done the same as what you describe the various "movements" in the Roman Catholic church as doing?

That goes to the original posting which caused the brouhaha. Jesuits and Franciscans are united in doctrine, authority, and worship; they differ only in discipline. The various protestant churches are divided in doctrine, authority AND worship; and are united only in what they deny.

[dangus]

No, I didn't mean to suggest they were. I was not meaning use an ad hominem attack on Pentecostalists or Calvinists; only pointing out that depravity is not unique to the celibate priesthood or the RC Church; and that in a non-episcopal* church you can still see the "shuffling" around of perverts, but there simply is no bishop to blame.

However, I also do not concur with the accusation that Pentecostalists engage in idolatry. In fact, I know that Calvinists believe Catholics "worship" the saints, but I'm quite puzzled at what behavior mainstream Pentecostalists engage in that you categorize as idolatry.

(*episcopal=having a bishop (Lutheran, Methodist, Catholic, Anglican))

[dangus]

The point is THEY (PCUSA) claim to be Calvinist. Disown them all you want, but how do I know who is telling the truth, whose interpretations are correct, who represents the true faith?

[CARepubGal]

Catholics = icons. Non Oneness Penecostals don't have icons. Oneness Penecostals = modalists = heretics. :-) Simple, painless explanation (Note to self coffee then FR) ;-)

[CARepubGal]

Well, Pope Michael calls himself catholic..... ;-)

[dangus]

>> Ya post someone's name, even in reference you should ping them. It's only courtesy.

I presumed you were already paying attention. I see I was right.

[dangus]

Catholic: "universal." Pope Michael: fits entire global church into a nice, small bedroom-sized "Cathedral".

It's so nice to belong to a church when you can tell who the nutjobs are :). (only tweaking ya.)