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In the beginning was Calvinism
unknown | Steve Schlissel

Posted on 11/14/2003 1:07:04 PM PST by Gamecock

An interesting read from our Messianic friends:

The Synagogue of Christ by Steve Schlissel Messianic Jewish pastor Messiah's Congregation, Brooklyn, New York.

The church wasn't born at Pentecost. It was Bar Mitzvah'd. No small matter, this. The church had a long, albeit dotted, history by the time the Spirit in Christ's fullness fell, and a glorious, albeit difficult, future. By Pentecost, the church, because of its history, its providentially-ordained organization and the Holy Spirit's promised guidance, was well-prepared to fulfill its function in the world.

The Belgic Confession, in Article XXVII, states, "We believe and profess one catholic or universal Church...This Church has been from the beginning of the world, and will be to the end thereof..." It has not, however, always had the same form. In the Garden of Eden God identified and separated the church (then consisting of two) using the essential elements, Word and Sacrament, Promise and Token, which would be present throughout the church's history, in some form or another. Our first parents were created to understand themselves and all things else in terms of a word. They had received the defining Word of God; they had heard the anti-word of the serpent. Choosing the devil's definitions, they had broken covenant with their Creator and entered into league with the destroyer, becoming co-pretenders with him to the throne.

God was not about to forsake His purposes, or to quickly formulate a "Plan B." He graciously and forcefully took back Adam and Eve-He redeemed them-by placing hostility between them and their new master (the Antithesis), by promising in their hearing the incarnation of the conquering, suffering Messiah (the Protevangelium, first proclamation of the Gospel), and by clothing them with God-provided coverings (the "Sacrament"), indicating in the clearest terms that their fig leaves (their instinctive effort at self-atonement/covering) were wholly inadequate and unacceptable. It is God who saves. Calvinism did not originate in Geneva; it is found in Eden. God's people, the covenant line, would henceforth be the people redeemed by Him to live, once again, in terms of His Word.

Calvinists are not the "church" founded by John Knox in Scotland. Knox founded no "church", but a Denomination. We are not the "church" founded by the Protestant Reformers. The Reformers founded no "church", but a Reformation. We are not the "church" founded by the Popes at Rome. No "pope" has founded any "church", just a (false) Administration. We are not the "church" founded by the Apostles at Pentecost. The Apostles founded no "church", but a Dispensation. We are not the "church" founded by Moses at Sinai. Moses founded no "church", but a covenanted Theonomic Congregation.

Calvinists are the Church founded by God in the very Garden of Eden. We are the Covenant Line of God's People, redeemed by Him to live in terms of His Word. We have stood the test of Time. And the Gates of Hell shall not prevail against us.


TOPICS: Mainline Protestant; Theology
KEYWORDS: calvin
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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian
Great!

How do you book mark a thread? The timing should be good since I have the hubby home all weekend for a change and wont be posting much either:)
81 posted on 11/15/2003 8:23:17 AM PST by OMalley
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To: RnMomof7
LOL;)

Ive been really well, how have you been?
82 posted on 11/15/2003 8:24:15 AM PST by OMalley
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To: mdmathis6; Gamecock; malakhi; Invincibly Ignorant; SoothingDave; al_c; ET(end tyranny); ...
mdmathis6 ; Gamecock


The Church was indeed formed from the foundation of the World....The Southern Baptists have been teaching what our Messianic Jewish friends are saying from practically the times that the Southern Baptists have been a denomination...as well as CMA churches, and Pentecostalists and many others! What did Christ say..."Before Abraham was...I AM!"?

73 posted on 11/15/2003 8:02 AM MST by mdmathis6

Good point ! He is also the same Rock from Exodus through Matthew and Paul to Peter!


NAU Exodus 17:6 "Behold, I will stand before you there on the rock at Horeb; and you shall strike the rock, and water will come out of it, that the people may drink." And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.


NAU 1 Peter 2:3 if you have tasted the kindness of the Lord. 4 And coming to Him as to a living stone which has been rejected by men, but is choice and precious in the sight of God, 5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For this is contained in Scripture: "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A CHOICE STONE, A PRECIOUS CORNER stone, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 7 This precious value, then, is for you who believe; but for those who disbelieve, "THE STONE WHICH THE BUILDERS REJECTED, THIS BECAME THE VERY CORNER stone," 8 and, "A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed. 9 But you are A CHOSEN RACE, A royal PRIESTHOOD, A HOLY NATION, A PEOPLE FOR God's OWN POSSESSION, so that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were NOT A PEOPLE, but now you are THE PEOPLE OF GOD; you had NOT RECEIVED MERCY, but now you have RECEIVED MERCY.

Y'shua is the ROCK on which His church is built !


a bondslave to the Christ

chuck

83 posted on 11/15/2003 8:38:18 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>)
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To: Dr Warmoose
The church existed from the time God said to Eve that her "seed" would crush the "serpent's head while his heal would be bruised by it". Christ was acknowledging the Church's existence even in the day of Abraham..."Abraham saw my day..and was glad". The Church is less about us the body and more about Christ as its head. Christ can exist alone, but his body of believers who existed from the creation to the present can not exist eternally without him. The church are those who have placed their faith in Christ and follow the will of the Father.

"Who are my father, mother and brother..."asked Christ."But those who do the will of my father...those are my father , mother, and brother!" Of such are his church!
84 posted on 11/15/2003 8:40:50 AM PST by mdmathis6
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To: XeniaSt
see my post at 84
85 posted on 11/15/2003 8:45:52 AM PST by mdmathis6
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To: Gamecock
Gove me a break...
The only person who I bashed without pinging was CC Woody, and it was a joke about his name, which I realized immediately was very unfunny and asked to have the moderator remove it.

>>You know good and well that Calvinists are dead set against abortion, women in leadership

Do I? Which Calvinists? the Presbyterian Church USA which represents 85% of Presbyterians and is militantly pro-abortion? If, as the original posting asserts, Calvinists are the True Chruch, how do I know who speaks for this true church? The line about pederast priests was just a simple cheap shot because there's no question that the Catholic Church does not support pedastery, and you know it.
86 posted on 11/15/2003 8:50:47 AM PST by dangus
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To: mdmathis6; dangus
Hey md,

a) Do you know who this is?

b) or how about this:

c) or him?

Ready? They are

a) Pope Gregory XVII

b) Pope Peter II

c) Pope Michael (Notice he has his own rock)

So what this little exercise proves is that you are right when you said: It seems to me that the Catholic Church itself is full of schisms and various groups that differ in belief and doctrine.

87 posted on 11/15/2003 9:02:55 AM PST by Gamecock (THE RC CHURCH 223 DENOMINATIONS AND GROWING!)
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To: mdmathis6
Do you really suppose that the various orders constitute a schism, or are you purposely relying on sophism? They have found ways to build their own spirituality which are specific to themselves but which are not in conflict.

Nor do the different rites constitute a schism. The Byzantine (including Russian) Catholic and Roman Catholic rites are in full communion and full accord; the various rites merely represent different cultures, and are no more schismatic than French being spoken at Notre Dame, while Spanish is spoken at Lourdes.

88 posted on 11/15/2003 9:04:46 AM PST by dangus
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To: mdmathis6
"Who are my father, mother and brother..."asked Christ."But those who do the will of my father...those are my father , mother, and brother!" Of such are his church!


84 posted on 11/15/2003 9:40 AM MST by mdmathis6

Thanks for Matthew 12:48 & Mark(peter) 3:33


NAU Matthew 12:46 While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. 47 Someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You." 48 But Jesus answered the one who was telling Him and said, "Who is My mother and who are My brothers?" 49 And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, "Behold My mother and My brothers! 50 "For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother."



NAU Mark 3:31 Then His mother and His brothers arrived, and standing outside they sent word to Him and called Him. 32 A crowd was sitting around Him, and they said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are outside looking for You." 33 Answering them, He said, "Who are My mother and My brothers?" 34 Looking about at those who were sitting around Him, He said, "Behold My mother and My brothers! 35 "For whoever does the will of God, he is My brother and sister and mother."

a bondslave to the Christ

chuck

89 posted on 11/15/2003 9:05:01 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>)
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To: Gamecock
This is the kind of silly nonsensical sophistry that I'm talking about.

The fact that some nut job declared himself emporer of California does not mean the United States are divided. Nor does a few hundred kooks roaming about Wyoming or Texas. Likewise, some insane lunatic declaring himself Pope doesn't mean that the Catholic church isn't unified. I mean for crying out loud, you show that the one guy's church (or cathedral, I'm sure, since he *is* claiming to be pope) is eight feet wide at best!

Really, at least the antipopes require an educated response. That's just stupid on its face.
90 posted on 11/15/2003 9:14:36 AM PST by dangus
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To: dangus; Hermann the Cherusker
post 64: you said: Gamecock's was a cheapshot that made no arguments

Ya post someone's name, even in reference you should ping them. It's only courtesy.

Do I? Which Calvinists? the Presbyterian Church USA which represents 85% of Presbyterians and is militantly pro-abortion?

The PCUSA? Give me a break, they are about as Calvinist as Hermann the Cherusker is Baptist! (see, case in point, I mentioned his name in passing and gave him the courtesy of a ping)

I got news for you Bubba, the PCUSA is bleeding members, they are leaving in droves. The PCA is growing and will continue to grow because we worship God and His Word.

FWIW, We don't have to import priests from 3rd world countries, like some churches. Our (PCA) seminaries are bursting at the seams. We are ordaining teaching elders faster than we can build churches.

Sola Deo Gloria!

91 posted on 11/15/2003 9:17:48 AM PST by Gamecock (THE RC CHURCH 223 DENOMINATIONS AND GROWING!)
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To: dangus
Really, at least the antipopes require an educated response. That's just stupid on its face.

Is it?

Last time ya'll discounted an alternative viewpoint, there was a Reformation.

92 posted on 11/15/2003 9:20:31 AM PST by Gamecock (THE RC CHURCH 223 DENOMINATIONS AND GROWING!)
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To: dangus; XeniaSt; Gamecock
"Do you really suppose that the various orders constitute a schism, or are you purposely relying on sophism? They have found ways to build their own spirituality which are specific to themselves but which are not in conflict."

My dear brother....take a look at what you have just written and tell me you are not engaged in sophism. Indeed, the phrase "build their own spirituality", if true must indeed lead to conflict unless this building is the work of the Holy Spirit, then again a work of the Holy Spirit can also lead to conflict("a dividing asunder flesh from spirit") In light of what you have written, are you in a position to judge that Protestantism historically has not done the same as what you describe the various "movements" in the Roman Catholic church as doing?
93 posted on 11/15/2003 9:23:13 AM PST by mdmathis6
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To: XeniaSt
I wish I had quoted the verses more accurately...but I trust you know what I was trying to say?
94 posted on 11/15/2003 9:25:18 AM PST by mdmathis6
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To: Dr Warmoose
Good job, Moose.
95 posted on 11/15/2003 9:56:46 AM PST by drstevej
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To: mdmathis6
I wish I had quoted the verses more accurately...but I trust you know what I was trying to say?


94 posted on 11/15/2003 10:25 AM MST by mdmathis6

I knew what you were trying to say;
but I am driven by the L-rd's Rabbi, Paul, in his letter to Timothy


NAU 2 Timothy 4:1 I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by His appearing and His kingdom: 2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. 5 But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

I want all who will see this thread to know the Word of G-d.


NAU 1 Corinthians 1:30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31 so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."

a bondslave to the Christ

chuck

96 posted on 11/15/2003 9:57:29 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (chuck <truth@YeshuaHaMashiach>)
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To: Gamecock
bump
97 posted on 11/15/2003 10:08:54 AM PST by rwfromkansas ("Men stumble over the truth, but most pick themselves up as if nothing had happened." Churchill)
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To: dangus; Gamecock; OrthodoxPresbyterian
Umm Pentecostals are NOT in ANY WAY Clavinist. Nice try though. :And WE do NOT have dancing in Church, no idols, no candles to the idols...... You know, that funny commandment (You Shall have NO other Gods Before me comes into play)
98 posted on 11/15/2003 10:23:38 AM PST by CARepubGal
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To: Dr Warmoose; Gamecock
Actually I recommend the site Founders.org for information about the SBC. The folks there are bringing the denomination slowly back towards its Calvinist roots. I wish they would boot Rick Warren out on his rear end though.
99 posted on 11/15/2003 10:26:22 AM PST by CARepubGal
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To: drstevej; Dr Warmoose
Commendable job Moose.
100 posted on 11/15/2003 10:28:32 AM PST by CARepubGal
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