Google sucked into RIAA/P2P fight

vnunet ^

[chance33_98]

Google sucked into RIAA/P2P fight

By Dinah Greek [02-09-2003] Search firm removes links to certain P2P sites following complaint from Kazaa creators

Popular search engine Google has been sucked into the ongoing legal battle between the Recording Industry of America (RIAA) and peer-to-peer sites (P2P). Following a court ruling in favour of the RIAA, Sharman Networks, the developers of the popular Kazaa P2P site, sent a letter to Google requesting that it remove links to certain sites.

Fifteen sites are thought to be in breach of the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), and are said by Sharman Networks to be running unauthorised copies of its Kazaa P2P software.

The letter demanded that Google should "immediately remove or disable all access to the infringing material".

Google has now removed the URLs from its search listings.

In a statement posted at the foot of its search results, Google said: "In response to a complaint we received under the DMCA, we have removed eight result(s) from this page. If you wish, you may read the DMCA complaint for these removed results."

Google has also posted a link to the letter from Sharman.

It has listed the full URLs of the sites it has removed, of which all but three still worked when tested by vnunet.com.

[Jack Wilson]

I see I'm outnumbered. Very few seem to consider the rights of the creators and distributors (publishers) of the work.

I still think these are the same views I would read on Democratic Underground, with the possible exception being that Demo's always ask why CD's cost $15 when they only cost a quarter to make...

[supercat]

I see I'm outnumbered. Very few seem to consider the rights of the creators and distributors (publishers) of the work.

Most people here, I suspect, believe that someone who buys a CD has a right to copy that CD onto any format for their own use, but do not have the right to indiscriminately such distribute copies to others.

The RIAA does not believe that people have any of those rights; the Kazaaphiles (and probably most people on DU) believe people have all of them. Why do you believe everyone who wants the former rights believes in the latter?

[Jack Wilson]

Most people here, I suspect, believe that someone who buys a CD has a right to copy that CD onto any format for their own use

I don't think a publisher would have any problem with that in theory. What is happening though, is that characters like the guy who said that the 'RIAA is pure evil' will make that one copy --- onto a shared site from which millions can make their copies. Remember, these copies are identical to the master now in the digital age. Qualitatively different from the old days when we would make a copy of our Clapton vinyl LP onto a cassette.

I am a registered owner of Microsoft Access 2000 which has an elaborate imbedded scheme to prevent duplication. My license allows me to install it on 2 devices. When a computer dies and I replace it with a new one, I have to make a phone call to Microsoft and key in a lengthy string of numbers to activate the software and pledge that I still have it installed only on 2 computers. Hackers may have a way around this, but I don't have a problem with it beyond the annoyance. This software took dozens, maybe hundreds of people to develop. I respect their work and want them to keep on doing it. They won't if they aren't making any money.

[an amused spectator]

Your entire post confirms that you are confused about the nature of knowledge and the digital revolution, Wilson. I myself have NEVER once used a CD or DVD downloading service or scheme, though I am fully capable of utilizing such things to the max, being a highly proficient computer geek type.

I have found that with the music collection I have now, I can just make CD copies within my own collection and leave the RIAA & its allies to go hang. I have no interest in contributing a nickel toward their financial well-being. This is the revolution I'm talking about - people have enough media now to stay within their own little circle of entertainment without purchasing any more. I have enough books, VHS tapes, CDs, cassettes, vinyl and DVDs to boycott the information Nazis. Screw them - they could have implemented micropayment-type schemes by now, but they're only interested in getting a double sawbuck for the "privilege" of cutting out the middleman. It's like charging 10 bucks every time you use an ATM. They're going to pay for their lack of vision.

And if you don't cut the crap about "why would you need a backup copy", Wilson, I'll label you a troll on the RIAA threads. One of my grandchildren trashed a brand-new DVD from The Fellowship extended edition before I even viewed it. My wife rented a DVD this week, and we were watching it tonight when it burped several times. She laughed when I told her about your post.

I'm running into too many Freepers these days who are trolling on certain subjects. It's BS, and I'm tired of it. You want to have a discussion, fine. I don't need your kind cluttering up the discourse with cow pies. Debate in good faith.

supercat - I flagged you because I know you're in my league when it comes to this stuff, and because you're willing to discuss it fairly. :-)

[battousai]

"It has listed the full URLs of the sites it has removed,"

thats too funny!

Ok no problem we'll remove those links you don't want people to see.

Oh by the way everyone just fyi these are the links that we removed.

[Jack Wilson]

How would you differentiate your views from those on Democratic Underground?

[InterceptPoint]

The number of infringing Americans is now probably around 30%-40% of our country. When you have numbers that high you have to question the principle and the law.

Well stated. This simple fact seems to go over the head of most of society and, amazingly, most on this freedom loving forum.

What really upsets me is when I hear a Senator or a Congressman (or the RIAA) explain how a new law they want passed is intended to "send a message". If it is the law then it is the law. If you are not willing to arrest all the offendors, charge them with a crime and prosecute them then you have bad law. (I will avoid getting into the drug laws here since we are focused on the P2P-RIAA issue but the principle is very much the same.)

[Jack Wilson]

Thanks to all who have posted on this thread. While I previously had some doubts about my position, you have helped me make up my mind.

[an amused spectator]

I'm running into too many Freepers these days who are trolling on certain subjects. It's BS, and I'm tired of it. You want to have a discussion, fine. I don't need your kind cluttering up the discourse with cow pies. Debate in good faith.

Looks like I got Jack Wilson's number - he's apparently trolling on the RIAA threads. I heard that he's recommending that law enforcement get rid of Kevlar vests and go to CD/DVD chain mail, because the media is bullet-proof. **snicker**

What is the point of an insincere debate, anyway? I've been seeing a lot of that lately. It's tiresome.

[CodeMonkey]

If you are not willing to arrest all the offendors, charge them with a crime and prosecute them then you have bad law. (I will avoid getting into the drug laws here since we are focused on the P2P-RIAA issue but the principle is very much the same.)

And that is why "morality crimes" need to be evaluated from a utilitarian rather than "righteous" position. The law must work with society. You can't ramrod a new way of looking at things down society's throat through the law. The fact that we still have so many drug offenders, many of whom are good productive citizens, would have been an argument against drug prohibition for most drug warriors if they possessed common sense.

Within 100-200 years Capitalism and Socialism as we know them now will probably be dead thanks to scientific advancement. Very advanced replication technologies will make it child's play to build new physical products. My hunch is that "American Capitalism" will evolve into a "hacker culture" where people can safely explore many opportunities that are too risky today because of the expense of production. Property rights will become almost a God-given absolute because you'll need a more effective mechanism than we have now to protect those who hack away and produce.

In short, things will only get harder for the reactionary elements of both the left and the right to deal with. I am beginning to see that the new political paradigm of "Stasisists" versus "Dynamists" is far more accurate than "Left versus Right." You know you have a paradigm shift when conservatives are en masse calling for a reevaluation of corporate (all kinds of corporate entities) rights (in this case on copyright) and when on many issues now conservatives and libertarians are finding common ground with moderates on the left.

I think one of the defining moments for this part of the 21st century in America will be the emerging left-right coallition opposed to the War on Terrorism's excesses like the USA PATRIOT Act. The future I see for America in the long run is four main political factions:

• Liberal or if you prefer, Libertarian, Capitalists
• Liberal Socialists
• Corporatists
• State Socialists

All forms of political liberals from the left and right and all forms of authoritarians will gravitate into a new set of opposing coallitions. We're already seeing this with the divide between those on each side that think that "piracy" is bad and those who think it's a symptom of a corrupt legal system, legislature and uncompetitive businesses. On that note, Reason is a great publication as its viewpoint is typically liber(al || tarian) capitalist, but sometimes socialistic too. It can be quite insightful to note the differences between state and libertarian socialists.

[Paladin2]

I've seen them bitten by dogs, driven over by multiple cars, heavily scratched by other family users who don't put them back into their cases immediatedly upon removal, scratched by those non-tray loading players and that's just my personal experience.

I'm sure others have seen tons of other ways where the CD is somewhat less sturdy than, say, Stonehenge.

[Jack Wilson]

My exact quote was: "DVD's and CD's are among the most durable products you can purchase" and I will stand by that. These things will be filling landfills for centuries. Plastic is durable. I still have my 45's purchased back in the early 60's and they still play, although not as well as CD's will years from now. Of course, they can get scratched or warped or broken.

I can't think of any other products that offer free replacements if your dogs chew them up or your children break them. Not sure why the music industry has to do that.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

I agree with all you have said, until you talk about books.

People don't usually borrow a book from the library and then xerox all of the pages. But, they do xerox the pages they need, and generally are able to attribute those pages to the original source. Do authors truly care if you have pages 3-45 xeroxed and in your file cabinet?

If this is legal, then why wouldn't it be legal to rent a DVD from Blockbuster and then copy it?

Or, am I missing a key part of the argument, here?

[Gumption]

I can't think of any other products that offer free replacements if your dogs chew them up or your children break them

You don't think very well. Ever hear of Craftsman?

[Calpernia]

You can copy your music. Everyone in the United States pays a tax indirectly on ALL blank Media and recording equipment. The government has passed several pieces of legislation (Home Recording Act, the Millenium Recording Act, etc.) that require manufacturers and/or distributors of
any digital recording equipment or media to pay a percentage-based tax.

http://www.aarcroyalties.com/forms/AARC%20Summary.pdf

SUMMARY OF THE AUDIO HOME RECORDING ACT Introduction This is an exciting and sometimes challenging time for the music business. Digital technology has changed the entire concept of the recording industry's product and how it is exploited. The Audio Home Recording Act of 1992 (“AHRA”) is one of the laws that enable the recording industry to continue exploiting its product in this digital era. In October 1992, the U.S. Congress passed AHRA. Under AHRA, manufacturers and importers of digital audio recorders and blank media are required to make royalty payments to compensate artists and copyright owners for lost royalties due to home taping. These payments are deposited with the U.S. Copyright Office ("Copyright Office"), a federal government agency. Distribution of the royalties to eligible claimants, including featured recording artists and record companies, is administered by the Copyright Office. In response to the passage of this law, the recording industry and the artist community united to form the "Alliance of Artists and Recording Companies" ("AARC"). AARC is a non-profit organization that represents featured performing artists and record companies with regard to AHRA and Japanese sound recording rental royalties. Currently, thousands of featured artists and recording artists are represented by AARC. Participation in AARC has countless advantages. First, by being an AARC participant you will alleviate the time and legal costs that you would otherwise incur in filing and litigating AHRA claims before the Copyright Office. If you choose to represent yourself in these proceeding, the costs could be significant since they include all the Copyright Office's and arbitrators' costs in addition to your own legal costs. Accordingly, it is in our collective interest to minimize government intervention and its associated costs in the distribution of royalties. Also, your participation will provide you an accurate and cost-efficient means of receiving your share of the collected royalties. Under AHRA, royalty payments are placed into two separate funds for the two types of copyrighted works affected by audio home recording -- sound recordings ("Sound Recordings Fund") and musical compositions ("Musical Works Fund"). AARC represents featured recording artists (usually record companies) with regard to the Sound Recordings Fund.

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Page 2 Pursuant to AHRA, two thirds (2/3) of the royalty payments are allocated to the Sound Recordings Fund. Of that amount, the Copyright Office releases four percent (4%) to the Independent Administrator for further distribution to non-featured musicians and vocalists. Forty percent (40%) of the remaining Sound Recordings Fund royalties is allocated to the featured recording artists who perform on sound recordings distributed during the year for which the royalties were collected (Featured Artists Subfund). The remaining sixty percent (60%) of the Sound Recordings Fund is allocated to the sound recording copyright owners whose sound recordings were distributed during the relevant year (Sound Recording Copyright Owners Subfund). Ultimate distribution to each featured artist in the Featured Artists Subfund is based on the artist's sales during the year which for the royalties were collected. Similarly, ultimate distribution to each sound recording copyright owner in the Sound Recording Copyright Owner Subfund is based on the sound recording copyright owner's sales during the year which for the royalties were collected. Sound Recordings Fund Royalty Payments To be entitled to a portion of these royalties, an artist or sound recording copyright owner must file an annual claim with the Copyright Office. Once the claims are filed, the claimants must take part in an administrative trial unless they are able to reach a universal settlement. Benefits of AARC participation to both performing artists and record companiesThe filing of annual claims, the evidentiary process before, during and after the arbitration panel can be time-consuming, complicated and burdensome for individual claimants, both in terms of legal fees and procedural costs (Copyright Office and arbitration costs). To alleviate these burdens, AHRA encourages the claimants in each group to agree to the division of royalties among individual claimants within their particular group, and to combine their claims by filing jointly or designating a common agent, such as AARC, to collect their royalties. There are numerous benefits to becoming an AARC participant, therefore, allowing us to represent you as a claimant before the Copyright Office. We are confident that our collective administration of the royalties will: - eliminate the need for time-consuming and costly individual filing and processing of claims; - provide you with the security of accurate claims that are timely filed; - reduce your costs through centralized, common administration and data collection; - produce fair and accurate sales data upon which to base distribution; - reduce the number of controversies needing to be resolved before an arbitration panel, thereby minimizing government and arbitration costs, and expediting payment of royalties to you; and - ensure that you are a part of an organization whose sole efforts are directed toward the long-term interests of artists and record companies.

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Page 3 To facilitate the royalty distribution process and to ensure its fairness, we have contracted with SoundScan to be AARC's data source. The SoundScan system registers point-of-sale information on albums and singles from record retailers and others. The SoundScan system provides us with the most comprehensive, cost-efficient, and accurate title specific point-of-sale information on record sales. Finally, in order to enable featured artists and record companies to deal with issues relating to the distribution of their monies, questions or disputes pertaining to the distribution of featured artist or record company funds will be resolved by panels comprised solely of artist and record company representatives, respectively. Additional benefits for performance artists JAPANESE RENTAL ROYALTIES In addition to the numerous benefits mentioned above, performance artist AARC participants are also eligible to receive Japanese sound recording rental royalties (“rental royalties”). On October 14, 1997, after several years of negotiating with Geidankyo1, the Alliance of Artists and Recording Companies ("AARC") reached formal agreements with Geidankyo to distribute rental royalties to featured recording artists. Japan's obligation to pay royalties for the rental of U.S. sound recording stems from the Uruguay Round Agreement on Trade-Related Aspects of Intellectual Property Rights, Including Trade in Counterfeit Goods ("TRIPS"). Both the U.S. and Japan, as members of the World Trade Organization, are signatories to TRIPS. Japan is one of the few countries that have a sound recording rental market. Although TRIPS includes a provision that prohibits signatories from engaging in the rental of sound recordings, it makes an exception for Japan. Japan is permitted to continue renting sound recordings if it provides remuneration to performers and producers. Geidankyo collects rental fees based on the number of times a sound recording is rented. By June 30 of each year, Geidankyo will distribute featured recording artists' royalties collected during the prior year. The first year for which Geidankyo distributed royalties to AARC was 1996. JAPANESE HOMETAPING ROYALTIES AARC also negotiated a reciprocal home taping agreement with CPRA/Geidankyo. Like the United States, Japan has a home taping law that requires the manufacturers of digital home recording equipment and media to pay royalties to compensate, among others, artists for the displacement of sales caused by home recording. This agreement benefits artists on United States and Japanese sound recordings since it requires AARC to pay CPRA/Geidankyo the United States royalties earned by featured artists on Japanese sound recordings and CPRA/Geidankyo to pay AARC the Japanese royalties earned by featured artists on United States sound recordings. 1Japanese society designated to collect Japan's sound recording rental royalties.

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Page 4 AARC is very proud to have negotiated these historic agreements on behalf of featured artists on United States sound recordings, and so to have found new royalty streams for these artists. For rental and home taping royalties due for prior years, AARC will receive several millions of dollars. Going forward, AARC will collect and distribute these royalties annually. AARC will continue its efforts in seeking out additional royalty sources, and protecting its participants' rights in their works. What You Need To Do Next AARC files a claim each year, by the end of February, for royalties collected during the prior year. To ensure that your claim is included in AARC's next AHRA claim, complete a representation agreement(s) ("Featured Recording Artist Authorization Letter" and/or "Copyright Owner Authorization Letter") authorizing AARC to represent you. You should also complete the requisite information forms and return them to us at your earliest convenience. To eliminate the administrative burden that would be associated with renewal of fixed-term authorizations, the term of the agreement is perpetual. However, the agreement may be termination by you at any time – so long as the proper notice is given (see “Authorization Letter”). Upon termination, AARC will continue to represent you only with respect to those claims filed, proceedings or actions commenced, and royalty fees collected from the Copyright Office prior to the effective date of the termination. Please complete and return an executed representation agreement(s) and information forms to us at your earliest convenience. Note that it is the representation agreement that enables AARC to represent you. Therefore, if you require additional time to complete the information forms, send your executed representation agreement to us before completing the information forms. After more than a decade of hard work in securing passage of this legislation, we are committed to ensuring that AHRA functions in a fair, efficient and cost-effective manner. Together, we can make sure that AARC is in the best position to achieve this result. If you have any questions, feel free to contact our office at (202) 775-0101.

[Paladin2]

Actually, I get free brake pads when the ones I previously purchased wear out. On some vehicles I've obtained 2 sets for free before the vehicle was put down.

Just like when I used to make a reel-2-reel tape of a new record I purchased so I could listen to it may times and still have a nearly pristine original to make another copy when the tape wore out, I have made copies of purchased CDs to use in the car and portable players so if (when) they get wrecked, they can be replaced at a reasonable cost.

Same concept, new hardware and media (sometimes the same content, paid for twice! - imagine that.)

[Tribune7]

Interesting post

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

Anyone else see the irony in Kazaa complaining about copyright infringement?

I saw it right off.

But I was having too much fun reading the thread to bother mentioning it...until you did.

I always love a little after dinner irony.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

What exactly is being licensed?

The content.

All the solid, material things you mentioned...you own.

It's the "intellectual property" that you are licensing.