Illegal Immigration: A Possible Solution

Self ^ | 8/29/2003 | Rockitz

[Rockitz]

I am an engineer so I love a good problem and illegal immigration certainly fits that bill. First, let me say that I believe that those who do venture to this country are among the brightest and hardest working individuals that the world has to offer. Certainly it takes a special person to consciously decide to make such a radical change in their life. Having said that, the idea of being in opposition to the law tends to make such an individual operate in a manner that seeks to avoid detection. Accordingly, such a person would be hesitant to register their presence in any manner, whether it be through "official" employment, a bank account, a credit card, a regular doctor, the Department of Motor Vehicles, a post office, or any other activity that might make that person's presence known to law enforcement. As such, norms of society such as paying income tax, DMV registration, health insurance, and the like are naturally avoided through cash compensation for work, operating vehicles without a license or registration, using public clinics and hospital emergency rooms for health maintenance, etc. While that means of operation may be appealing to the illegal immigrant on a number of counts, it leaves the remaining citizenry to pay the cost of government services like education, law enforcement, fire protection, infrastructure, and the like as well as higher costs for health care, auto insurance and other private services. While the illegal immigrant does pay certain state sales taxes, such payments are certainly a very small fraction of those paid by the average citizen who also pays federal and state income tax, social security, various insurances, etc.

National registration of alien workers, increased border security, and laws forbidding the hiring of illegal immigrants have significant costs in themselves and do little to attack the costs that the illegal immigrant imposes on society. A possible solution that does address these costs imposed by illegal immigration is collection of a Value Added Tax (VAT) or national or state-based sales tax. This tax would apply to all goods and services and ultimately make it difficult for an illegal immigrant to shirk responsibility for any of the myriad of costs that he routinely passes on to the remaining citizenry. Although all would pay it, those legal residents who are responsible in paying and filing their tax returns could recoup such taxes through reduced income tax rates. For those at the lower end of the economic scale, such taxes could be offset by credits. For those at the upper end of the economic scale, such taxes could be used to justify substantial decreases in income tax rates. While I personally believe that passing those collected taxes through the government is detestable on numerous counts including considerable inefficiencies and potential diversion to pet programs, the status quo is unacceptable and will ultimately bankrupt our states and nation. The idea of a VAT or national sales tax is far from original, however it is typically ignored by conservatives simply because it is a tax. I choose to look at it as a viable alternative tax policy that will close the "cash compensation" loophole and ultimately discourage illegal immigration.

[LS]

You are 100% right. But that wasn't the comment: the comment was an IMMIGRANT bashing, not an "illegal-bashing." Now, if you want to make the argument anti-Mexican or anti-Latin American, that is a different argument. No, we don't get many Nobel Prize winners from Mexico. We get a higher % of our soldiers and marines; a higher percentage of restaurant owners; and other small businesses from Mexican legal immigrants. I won't argue that the Latin culture does not emphasize science and math the way Asians do, but they are productive in other ways. God help us if all we have are chemists.

[LS]

Here is what the poster wrote that people jumped on:

"I believe that those who do venture to this country are among the brightest and hardest working individuals that the world has to offer."

Now, I took that to mean across time, "those" (i.e., all) who ventured to this country . . . ." I did not take that line to mean "illegals." I could be wrong, but you could be wrong. Why not let the poster say what he meant here? If he meant my interpretation, then the Nobel Prize winners have come here legally, yes.

[Rockitz]

Thanks for the ping. Looking forward to this....

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

"I am an engineer so I love a good problem and ILLEGAL immigration certainly fits that bill. First, let me say that I believe that THOSE who do venture to this country are among the brightest and hardest working individuals that the world has to offer."

I guess it is a matter of interpretation. The title and substance of the article is about illegal immigration and the first 2 sentences can gramatically be assumed to be about illegal immigration:
"those who do venture" refers back to "illegal immigration".

But, I can also see how "those" could be interpreted to mean ANY of "those who do venture to this country", which would include legal and illegal immigrants.
It is unfortunate when some apply racist rhetoric to their arguments; it is probably due to their anger over the situation.

[grania]

They're invaders. Don't refer to these criminals as any kind of "immigrants". If they are such hard workers, let them go to their homelands and expend their efforts there.

The only solution is a wall and a DMZ on our southern border, complete with guards...lots of them. Anyone who knowingly hires them or in anyway assists in their entry, continued presence, and/or employment should see serious fines and jail time.

Skip this "oh, those hard workers" nonsense. They're here for one reason. To undermine the benefits and salaries of US workers.

Is this the kind of "input" you were looking for? <^..^>

[taxed2death]

My solution....no new taxes, no land mines, there is actually very little to nothing needed......except one simple thing.



Enforce the laws that are currently on the books.

It's really that simple.

This goes from the top on down. No more "selective" law enforcement. No more turning a blind eye like our idiot President is so fond of doing. From the Top down, "El Presedente' Jorge Boooosh" needs to set an example for all law enforcement to follow.....all the way down to a rookie patrolman who pulls you over and askes you for ID.


If I'm pulled over and cannot produce a valid ID, I get a free trip down town. Illegals don't even get asked in many cases, because the cops suspect they're here illegally.

[Protagoras]

One of the few things worse for this country than illegal entry would be a VAT tax. Hello European stagnation.

A national sales tax after repeal of the constitutional amendment allowing direct taxation is a different topic.

[Bikers4Bush]

Did you even read the title? This whole thing is about illegals. He didn't call them illegals because as he put it he "might have to run for office" and was trying to be "civil".

[Rockitz]

Now, I took that to mean across time, "those" (i.e., all) who ventured to this country . . . ." I did not take that line to mean "illegals."

Yes, you are quite correct. I believe my posts #24 and #43 cover this quite accurately. Thanks for your help.

My first couple sentences can be taken as a background of introduction of sorts introducing my background and perception of immigration, in general, followed by my discussion of illegal immigration and a possible solution. My error, if anything, is attempting to be as brief as possible in getting my point across. In hindsight, I should have included a sentence like "Not all immigration is bad." I try to respect people's time and probably needed to appreciate that not all people read every sentence. Unfortunately, in what I wrote, every sentence is important and I've paid for it in my follow-up clarifications.

[Plutarch]

First, let me say that I believe that those who do venture to this country are among the brightest...

I get to talk with immigrant workers using an interpreter regularly. I am here to tell you that the adjective "bright" isn't the first thing that usually comes to mind.

[LS]

No, see his post to me above. Let HIM speak for what he meant.

[Rockitz]

"those who do venture" refers back to "illegal immigration".

I don't believe it does and, in any case, it's certainly not what I meant. Sorry for the confusion.

Dammit Jim, I'm a rocket scientist, not a writer!

[LS]

See the author's response to my question on the thread. He meant to put it in the context of EARLIER, LEGAL immigration. But I agree, the post was not well-written.

[janetgreen]

We could start by electing Tancredo President

I'll second that!

[genefromjersey]

An interesting idea that might make excellent economic sense-and will therefore be opposed by just about everybody ! ( Pardon my cynicism ! )

Liberals will cry it's a burden on the "poor and oppressed".Conservatives will howl (with some justification)that it will be just another burden to shoulder.

[Capt.YankeeMike]

go back to your lab. Its obvious you havent stuck your nose outside in 40 years, why start now?
The Wily ol Captain. (who lives in the real world)

[Willie Green]

You lost me after that.

Just another NRST tax shill.
The flying monkeys claim it's a panacea for anything and everything that's wrong with society: the NRST will clear clogged drains, remove mildew stains, relieve hemorrhoid itch, etc. etc. blah, blah, blah, ad nauseum...

It's the same old snake oil in a different package.

[Rockitz]

I didn't mean illegals in my second sentence. I truly meant all immigrants.

From my post #24:

My "second sentence" would include those that come here both legally and illegally. Many of those coming here illegally are just trying to help their families survive so "brightest" and "hard working" may not apply to them.

My follow-up statement with regard to being "civil" is merely accomodating my full realization that there is a segment of immigrants who are here to survive and those in that segment may not be particularly "bright" and/or "hard working."

[moehoward]

LOL.
I "get" your "solution" all right.

A futile attempt at making illegally entering the U.S. unattractive by taxing the crap out of American citizens.

But hey it's Friday, and comedy posts are common.

[spirit_free]

Sir,

I never said the 'status quo' was acceptable. The fact is I agree with most of my fellow freepers who have previously posted and I just wanted to expand the dicussion on other items that you presented with your overall solution to illegal immigration. It's so simple and yet you seem to disregard the 'Rule of Law' that applies here. All that we need to do is DEMAND that our politicians adhere to our current LAWS!!!!!! Ya know, the ones currently on the books, that's it! If that were done, we wouldn't NEED any additional taxes. I believe we would have more surpluses than we would know what to do with. OK?

Brilliant? No, not me. But I do COMPREHEND everything you have written ... and I am here to tell you that VAT attacks EVERYBODY, not just illegal immigrants.