Illegal Immigration: A Possible Solution

Self ^ | 8/29/2003 | Rockitz

[Rockitz]

I am an engineer so I love a good problem and illegal immigration certainly fits that bill. First, let me say that I believe that those who do venture to this country are among the brightest and hardest working individuals that the world has to offer. Certainly it takes a special person to consciously decide to make such a radical change in their life. Having said that, the idea of being in opposition to the law tends to make such an individual operate in a manner that seeks to avoid detection. Accordingly, such a person would be hesitant to register their presence in any manner, whether it be through "official" employment, a bank account, a credit card, a regular doctor, the Department of Motor Vehicles, a post office, or any other activity that might make that person's presence known to law enforcement. As such, norms of society such as paying income tax, DMV registration, health insurance, and the like are naturally avoided through cash compensation for work, operating vehicles without a license or registration, using public clinics and hospital emergency rooms for health maintenance, etc. While that means of operation may be appealing to the illegal immigrant on a number of counts, it leaves the remaining citizenry to pay the cost of government services like education, law enforcement, fire protection, infrastructure, and the like as well as higher costs for health care, auto insurance and other private services. While the illegal immigrant does pay certain state sales taxes, such payments are certainly a very small fraction of those paid by the average citizen who also pays federal and state income tax, social security, various insurances, etc.

National registration of alien workers, increased border security, and laws forbidding the hiring of illegal immigrants have significant costs in themselves and do little to attack the costs that the illegal immigrant imposes on society. A possible solution that does address these costs imposed by illegal immigration is collection of a Value Added Tax (VAT) or national or state-based sales tax. This tax would apply to all goods and services and ultimately make it difficult for an illegal immigrant to shirk responsibility for any of the myriad of costs that he routinely passes on to the remaining citizenry. Although all would pay it, those legal residents who are responsible in paying and filing their tax returns could recoup such taxes through reduced income tax rates. For those at the lower end of the economic scale, such taxes could be offset by credits. For those at the upper end of the economic scale, such taxes could be used to justify substantial decreases in income tax rates. While I personally believe that passing those collected taxes through the government is detestable on numerous counts including considerable inefficiencies and potential diversion to pet programs, the status quo is unacceptable and will ultimately bankrupt our states and nation. The idea of a VAT or national sales tax is far from original, however it is typically ignored by conservatives simply because it is a tax. I choose to look at it as a viable alternative tax policy that will close the "cash compensation" loophole and ultimately discourage illegal immigration.

[FreePaul]

Did those prize winners divulge their immigration status before or after getting the prize? Oh, maybe the were here legally to begin with. Then again there are several immigrants who didn't receive the Nobel prize.

[buccaneer81]

Uh, Boris, 80% of the AMERICAN Nobel-Prize Winners were born in another country. Care to reconsider?

And how many were from South of the Rio Grande? I would venture a guess that most came from Europe or Asia.

[boris]

"Uh, Boris, 80% of the AMERICAN Nobel-Prize Winners were born in another country. Care to reconsider?"

So millions of Nobel-class scientists are invading illegally from Mexico?

And we are too blind to put them in tenured University positions, say in astrophysics or chemistry--instead forcing them to do garden work?

Tell me, genius, what fraction of immigrants are Nobel-Prize winners? What fraction are illegal immigrants?

--Boris

[Rockitz]

My "second sentence" would include those that come here both legally and illegally. Many of those coming here illegally are just trying to help their families survive so "brightest" and "hard working" may not apply to them. Remember, as a previous poster indicated, your ancestors were probably immigrants.

[boris]

"When a burgler breaks into your home"

Wise not to offer spelling lessons after this.

--Boris

[Paulus Invictus]

And me too! Look at how many of these illegals are now in our jails (at high cost to the taxpayers again). They are in jail for crimes committed, not for crossing the porous borders.

[moehoward]

"First, let me say that I believe that those who do venture to this country are among the brightest and hardest working individuals that the world has to offer."

Using this as an opener would clear the room.

The rest of your solution seems to be a "subtitute the income tax with a VAT style tax" argument. Not much of a solution on the millions of law breakers that have, and will continue, to come to America.

Post #7 is a solution with a little more teeth IMO.

[Theo]

burgler = burglar.

Any comment on the point I was making?

[Paulus Invictus]

Boris, you make more sense and I agree with your masterful plan. Now, how to implement it? How do we get the gummint to act upon it? Letter writing to reps does little or nothing.

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

Nobel Prizes are not handed out to illegals, they were just immigrants. Most first generation legal immigrants to America are very ambitious.
Most illegals have little respect for our laws and country. Like many here on work visas, they even dislike America, but are here to "make a packet of money" (as one Brit on a visa told me once), with plans to go back home. The illegals who stay send a lot of money home. And, their community shows no signs of assimilation. There are 2nd generation latinos here who speak little English.
Now that the border is a possible conduit for terrorists, the federal government cannot afford to turn a blind eye.
It is the responsibility of the federal government to protect our borders, not the states. So, the funding should be from the federal level. Right now, the states are bearing most of the burden of health, education, police, prison and welfare. Finally, add in the lost tax revenue, because illegals are paid under the table, and do indeed take jobs that unemployed Americans could have had.

[Paulus Invictus]

OK, this is even better! Hows can it be implemented?

[Rockitz]

Oh, I definitely understand the problem. See post 15 and remember that this solution addresses the costs of illegal immigration and not merely enforcement of existing laws. We all know how "vigorous" our enforcement of immigration laws is, NOT!

[rdb3]

This topic, and its subsequent threads, bring out the worst discourse at FR.

[Joe Hadenuf]

First, let me say that I believe that those who do venture to this country are among the brightest and hardest working individuals that the world has to offer

Bull shit.

[moehoward]

Perhaps re-think your title.

[spirit_free]

I believe the first few sentences that you wrote have been dealt with, so may I just throw in an additional thought here that you may want to ponder. If you are a true conservative then I assume you would NOT want to add a national Value Added Tax on top of our current Federal Income Tax. To have both would be (shudder) unthinkable.

Please reconsider your stance on taxing the nation as well as your thoughts on immigration. Any immigrant here ILLEGALLY is a criminal and should be treated as such. Just because they pay taxes while they break our laws does not make it acceptable.

We, as a nation, need 'leaders' ... not more politicians, so you might consider not pandering.

[ijcr]

90% of your issues are already Federal Law....they are on the books and available for implementation.

All we need is an administration willing to apply them and tragically this one will not.

[N. Theknow]

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I have gotten about 20 emails advertising this website and working in the USA.

[Bikers4Bush]

And our ancestors came here legally. They didn't sneak across the border at night to invade and steal.

[N. Theknow]

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