Illegal Immigration: A Possible Solution

Self ^ | 8/29/2003 | Rockitz

[Rockitz]

I am an engineer so I love a good problem and illegal immigration certainly fits that bill. First, let me say that I believe that those who do venture to this country are among the brightest and hardest working individuals that the world has to offer. Certainly it takes a special person to consciously decide to make such a radical change in their life. Having said that, the idea of being in opposition to the law tends to make such an individual operate in a manner that seeks to avoid detection. Accordingly, such a person would be hesitant to register their presence in any manner, whether it be through "official" employment, a bank account, a credit card, a regular doctor, the Department of Motor Vehicles, a post office, or any other activity that might make that person's presence known to law enforcement. As such, norms of society such as paying income tax, DMV registration, health insurance, and the like are naturally avoided through cash compensation for work, operating vehicles without a license or registration, using public clinics and hospital emergency rooms for health maintenance, etc. While that means of operation may be appealing to the illegal immigrant on a number of counts, it leaves the remaining citizenry to pay the cost of government services like education, law enforcement, fire protection, infrastructure, and the like as well as higher costs for health care, auto insurance and other private services. While the illegal immigrant does pay certain state sales taxes, such payments are certainly a very small fraction of those paid by the average citizen who also pays federal and state income tax, social security, various insurances, etc.

National registration of alien workers, increased border security, and laws forbidding the hiring of illegal immigrants have significant costs in themselves and do little to attack the costs that the illegal immigrant imposes on society. A possible solution that does address these costs imposed by illegal immigration is collection of a Value Added Tax (VAT) or national or state-based sales tax. This tax would apply to all goods and services and ultimately make it difficult for an illegal immigrant to shirk responsibility for any of the myriad of costs that he routinely passes on to the remaining citizenry. Although all would pay it, those legal residents who are responsible in paying and filing their tax returns could recoup such taxes through reduced income tax rates. For those at the lower end of the economic scale, such taxes could be offset by credits. For those at the upper end of the economic scale, such taxes could be used to justify substantial decreases in income tax rates. While I personally believe that passing those collected taxes through the government is detestable on numerous counts including considerable inefficiencies and potential diversion to pet programs, the status quo is unacceptable and will ultimately bankrupt our states and nation. The idea of a VAT or national sales tax is far from original, however it is typically ignored by conservatives simply because it is a tax. I choose to look at it as a viable alternative tax policy that will close the "cash compensation" loophole and ultimately discourage illegal immigration.

[FITZ]

Certainly the legal ones tend to be of superior quality.

Not all -- not by a long shot. To sponsor and indigent immigrant you only need to be at 125% over the federal poverty levels, then your income is added in with theirs when determining their eligibility for government handouts. Millions of legal immigrants are getting welfare programs --- a wealthy doctor can bring in his elderly sick mother by finding a less well off relative to do the "sponsoring" which then allows none of the relatives to pay for her support --- the US taxpayers will do that.

[FITZ]

Being idealistic is a luxury that will not get you too far in politics.

I think another very needed approach is a tough stance with the Mexican politicians who are playing our current politicians like violens. We need to tell them --- in no uncertain terms --- that the game is over, they are to clean up their governments and make some big changes in how things are done because immigration as a means to keep their corrupt societies going on is over. And we will not give them refuge if they don't and the revolution starts. We will give them no aid, no back-up --- in fact if anything we should help their people overthrow their corrupt evil systems.

[helper]

That works for me as long as it gets paid by the FED to the State, never happen, they will make the paper work so onerous that it won't be worth it.

[Donna Rumsfeld]

The Green Card Lottery is for real. I know someone who got his green card that way.

[Rockitz]

The elderly immigrant who will never work a day in the USA but whose relatives bring him/her over just to get SSI and Medicaid is one example of the a big problem with our immigration and sponsorship laws.

Agreed.

[Rockitz]

What would happen is illegal aliens would bundle up their store reciepts and sell them to legal immigrants who will be happy to scam the IRS. So many recent immigrants, leagl and illegal are in on scams and frauds. Messing with your VAT/national sales tax would be child's play for them.

Point well taken. However, I could envision limits to VAT refunds based on location of residence and number of dependents that would limit the scams.

[MatthewViti]

let me say that I believe that those who do venture to this country are among the brightest and hardest working individuals that the world has to offer.

those wetbacks sure do work hard at screwing the taxpayer and govt' for every nickle and dime they can get their hands on.

[mamelukesabre]

I got three comments.

First, your reasoning is sound. A consumption based tax would be better to force illegals to pay their fare share. But, there is no way in * that any sane conservative would let the government create a whole new way to legally steal money from us without permanently and totally eliminating the old method of legally stealing money from us first. You would have to be stupid to give the government permission to steel from us in two different ways. They already take way too much.

Second, the best way to keep illegals from raping our country is to KEEP THEM OUT OF HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Third, you are sadly mistaken about illegal mexicans being such high caliber people. Certainly, there is a spectrum. Certainly there are good and bad, just as there are good and bad in any group of people. But for the most part, ILLEGAL mexicans/hondurans/central american latinos are basically poor, illiterate, unskilled, and prone to criminal behavior. I'll tell you why they are so stubborn about learning english. It's because they CAN'T READ! Not only can they not read english, but they can't even read spanish. Being illiterate in your native toungue is a huge handicap if you are trying to learn a second language. In fact, it pretty much makes it impossible. If you go into their homes, you will see they are not americans, they do not wish to be americans, and they have desire whatsoever to learn anything about america or what it means to be american. They couldn't care less about the freedoms this country fights for, dies for, and holds dear. They are mexicans and they will remain mexicans untill the day they die. They are only here because they see they can get newer stuff easy, if not free, if they come here. That's it. That's their only motive. If you give a mexican employee a sizable bonus check, He'll run off to mexico and live like a king for a month or two showing off to all his old buddies and relatives and making more illegitimate babies. Then he'll come sneaking back accross the border when the money runs out. THat fact right there should tell you all you need to know about their motives.

[FITZ]

I'd be in favor of a total reform in immigration laws. Throw away family sponsorship the way it is now being done. No bringing in relatives unless you have the ability to completely provide for those relatives --- that means the sponsor pays a health insurance and can set aside enough for all other costs. Only immigrants able to work and provide completely for themselves should be allowed to come in --- and for a certain number of years --- 20 or at least 10, they should be allowed to access no government social programs at all.

My way would be a little more compassionate because those now who have to resort to illegal immigration could come in legally if they could obtain full employment --- they could take the place of those being brought in by family members who are useless parasites to our society.

Part of the problem is that we allow in family members ----whether or not they are able to work and provide for themselves --- yet a guy who is able-bodied and can actually earn by working any money he hopes to get is barred from legal entry because the immigration quotas get filled by lesser types.

[mamelukesabre]

If a national sales tax were only applied to new merchandise, The poor would have some immunity since they buy alot of used goods.

It would also be a good idea to make groceries exempt.

[moehoward]

Look, I agree that a VAT or a flat tax scheme of some sort is preferable to the current system. But not in addition to. Additional taxes may very well make the "best and brightest" immigrants choose a country with a less oppressive tax structure. However, illegals will not care.

Some have pointed to a SS# verification system prior to employment. A great idea and essentially already in place. Currently employers are routinely notified that an employees SS# does not jive with IRS records. The presenter of this number generally just moves on down the road to start the process over again at a new job.

All that is needed is a pre-qualification system. Every current and prospective employee gets screened. This means all temp/day labor centers as well. ANYONE hiring an Illegal or circumventing the system is subject to asset forfeiture. Cash rewards for whistle blowers to make things interesting.

Now that's "A Probable Solution for Illegal Immigration"

[mamelukesabre]

If you count all the babies born to people that were here illegally (as I do), then there are a * of alot more than 20 million.

[lawdude]

""First, let me say that I believe that those who do venture to this country are
among the brightest and hardest working individuals that the world has to offer." "

He lost me too. He obviously is NOT in Arizona. Now I admit that most of the hispanics I meet are criminals of some form or another, they are hardly the brightest. Most of the anglo "criminals" are average. Most of the hispanics are "low end" on the sharps stick. If they are smart, why do they die in droves trying to walk from the border to Phoenix/Tucson in 120 degree heat?

The legals hispanics are generally pretty sharp and certainly good people (in general, of course). Not so the illegals.

JMHO

YMMV

[rightofrush]

The appeal of the VAT goes a beyond what you mentioned. I rather like the idea of a tax that drug dealers, pimps, and others outside the law would have to pay a tax on what they buy, rather than not paying any tax at all.

[rightofrush]

1) Mine the borders.
2) Put cash bounties on illegal aliens (i.e. a citizen gets say $100 for ratting out an illegal)
3) Bounties on businesses that hire illegals.
4) Machine gun towers and use the current technology of survailance drones.

Now the problem is solved.

[boris]

"Diplomacy is not one of your stronger suits I take it?"

You just noticed this fact?

--Boris

[dalereed]

Just put a bounty on illegals like they used to have on moutain lions in California. In the 50s the big cat bounty was $90 for a male and $110 for a female so maybe $500 per illegal body turned in would be a fair price today.

[spirit_free]

Ya know, it is impossible to reason with you so I won't. I guess having been an accountant for 25 years, it is just impossible for me to understand 'revenue neutral'. There is no such thing as revenue neutral, EXCEPT in your own mind. If you understood economics you would understand how ridiculous your term 'revenue neutral' is.

I wish you well... good bye.

[JustPiper]

My Mom worked for Goldwater too! He was her all time favorite. Her only regret? She did not get to use her invite to Nixon's innauguration.

[Rockitz]

Although I have understood from a few others that it is hard to tell, I was referring to all immigrants- legal and illegal. See posts 24 and 43 for my comments on that.