Illegal Immigration: A Possible Solution

Self ^ | 8/29/2003 | Rockitz

[Rockitz]

I am an engineer so I love a good problem and illegal immigration certainly fits that bill. First, let me say that I believe that those who do venture to this country are among the brightest and hardest working individuals that the world has to offer. Certainly it takes a special person to consciously decide to make such a radical change in their life. Having said that, the idea of being in opposition to the law tends to make such an individual operate in a manner that seeks to avoid detection. Accordingly, such a person would be hesitant to register their presence in any manner, whether it be through "official" employment, a bank account, a credit card, a regular doctor, the Department of Motor Vehicles, a post office, or any other activity that might make that person's presence known to law enforcement. As such, norms of society such as paying income tax, DMV registration, health insurance, and the like are naturally avoided through cash compensation for work, operating vehicles without a license or registration, using public clinics and hospital emergency rooms for health maintenance, etc. While that means of operation may be appealing to the illegal immigrant on a number of counts, it leaves the remaining citizenry to pay the cost of government services like education, law enforcement, fire protection, infrastructure, and the like as well as higher costs for health care, auto insurance and other private services. While the illegal immigrant does pay certain state sales taxes, such payments are certainly a very small fraction of those paid by the average citizen who also pays federal and state income tax, social security, various insurances, etc.

National registration of alien workers, increased border security, and laws forbidding the hiring of illegal immigrants have significant costs in themselves and do little to attack the costs that the illegal immigrant imposes on society. A possible solution that does address these costs imposed by illegal immigration is collection of a Value Added Tax (VAT) or national or state-based sales tax. This tax would apply to all goods and services and ultimately make it difficult for an illegal immigrant to shirk responsibility for any of the myriad of costs that he routinely passes on to the remaining citizenry. Although all would pay it, those legal residents who are responsible in paying and filing their tax returns could recoup such taxes through reduced income tax rates. For those at the lower end of the economic scale, such taxes could be offset by credits. For those at the upper end of the economic scale, such taxes could be used to justify substantial decreases in income tax rates. While I personally believe that passing those collected taxes through the government is detestable on numerous counts including considerable inefficiencies and potential diversion to pet programs, the status quo is unacceptable and will ultimately bankrupt our states and nation. The idea of a VAT or national sales tax is far from original, however it is typically ignored by conservatives simply because it is a tax. I choose to look at it as a viable alternative tax policy that will close the "cash compensation" loophole and ultimately discourage illegal immigration.

[Rockitz]

What part of "revenue neutral" don't you understand? As I asked another individual, think outside the box and try to quell your aversion to the terms tax and VAT.

[Rockitz]

Wow! Thanks for the enlightenment. I don't think many people know about this.

It's truly amazing that in a computerized world when you can debit your checking count in a matter of seconds that it takes months for government agencies to respond. That's certainly something that has to change and it's an enforcement method that would definitely have some teeth. Instantly - Bad SS#=no job.

[CJ Wolf]

Rockitz

I didn't like your proposal much. Primarly because of the tax thing. I can see how you think that it would help, but I don't think it will help in the long run. Illegals get away with out paying tax primarily because they demand cash as payment. There own blackmarkets would not be subject to your VAT Tax. I would like to see our BS Tax code revised anyway, but not for the reasons stated.

Many have noted that you started with an obvious pandering fallacy. Instead, I propose that you change your goal, make it: To ensure that future Legal immigrents 'are among the brightest and hardest working individuals that the world has to offer.'

It is logically motivated that to achieve this goal, we have to make America an attractive place for these people.

I also have started to think about this problem in earnest as well, and I put forth my proposal. Which combines too problems designed to make America a better more free place

1. Start with legalizing drugs. Put warning labels on them and Tax them.

2. Funded by the drug tax move the out of work vast resorces of the DEA and local drug task forces, gang task forces and seatbelt violater hunters into the fight against illegal aliens. A lift and shift of focus from citizens to illegal citizens.

3. Catch them and Deport them.

4. Do away with Minimum wage, let the market decide the payrate.

5. Fill the vacant jobs left by the illegals with Americans.

Some say that the Americans won't want the jobs, or will want to be paid more, But I am not so sure. If they want to be paid more then perhaps it would be worth it, because you could get much better work ethic for the quality of effort.

In addition we all know that Market supply and demand will always dictate fare and certain prices for these products, be it landscaping, working at wendys or house cleaning. I am convienced that you will still pay around the same price for things. Here is the reason: The Illegal master will no longer make the disgusting profits off the pitance paid to the illegals. For example, say it costs $100 to clean your house and you hire a company that pays it's cleaner $24 for a 4 hour job (That's $6 dollars an hour). That's a profit of $76 that goes to the lawbreaker Guy who didn't really do anything except pay the illegal. He justifies this by saying that he is taking a chance by hiring the poor illegal cleaner and often will treat them any which way he wants because legally they have no recourse and he knows this. If instead you were to give a hired American the same $100 to clean your house, that American would get $25 per hour and would likely be happy doing a good job. With this plan, Illegals will see that America is no longer a push over and will eventually get tired of being hunted and deported by the heavy handed and well trained (highly paid by the drug tax) Jack Booted thugs. This will ensure that those that wish to enter our great country future will try to enter legally to gain the benefits America is known for. Once our country is free of illegals, people will see that America is not a teet to be sucked on anymore and then only the best and brightests will flock to our shores legally once again. Comments are welcome. CJ

[Rockitz]

Thanks for all of you comments. They have helped me see what kind of views are out there and will help me formulate a clearer view in my own mind. Bye for now.

[truth_seeker]

"I'm trying propose something here that actually stands a snowball's chance in hell of being passed as legislation by our beloved representatives. Cough! Cough!"

Do you really think the Calif. legislature, heavily democrat, would entertain an alternate tax scheme, which is regressive?

[grania]

Do you understand what the term "revenue neutral" means?

Do you understand what the term "unemployed and underemployed US workers" means?

<^..^>

[taxed2death]

I understand the FACT that every time Gub-mint imposes a tax, it winds up mis-spent somewhere else.

Taxes from Indian casinos.....spent everywhere but where but where we were told they'd be spent.

Social Security.....paid for Viet Nam war. Still waitin' to see Geraldo (Jerry Rivers) open up the Social Security Lock box on prime time network television so I can see where all my money I've paid in is being kept.

Gas taxes, supposed to be spent on Hi-way repair....NOOOOOT, it's in the general slush fund.

Want me to give you 4 or 500 more examples, All I have to do is look for 'em and I'll find em.

I AM thinking outside the box. We need to tell our dum-dum of a puppet Pres to not hand out 15 BILLION dollars of taxpayer money for the scam called AIDS in Africa.



....a few billion here, a few trillion there and pretty soon were talking about REAL money here!

[taxed2death]

We OBVIOUSLY have the money. We DON'T need another tax. We need some polititians with some damned BALLS to stand up and do what is right for this country AS A WHOLE, unless you want to see the "balkinization" of this country. We're on a "fast track" to that right now. Right now, I only see two out there, Tancredo, from Co. and Mclintock (sp?) who's running for Gov of Mexifornia. GWB is a RINO / globalist puke who will obviously do nothing to secure our borders and won't be happy until we have peeps from every rat-hole third world country sleeping in cardboard boxes on every neighborhood corner in small town USA. AHHHHH YES, a socialists dream come true!!! Don't be another idiot and listen to what he says. Open your eyes and watch what he's doing. He's just like pappy, a carbon copy, too busy trying to run the world while our country rots from the inside out. But I guess that's every globalists dream come true......to "even the playing field" and have evrone in the US working for $2.00 a day. Actions speak much louder than words.

[Rockitz]

You missed the point about being "revenue neutral" for those who pay withholding and file tax returns contained in a couple key sentences in the second paragraph.

Although all would pay it, those legal residents who are responsible in paying and filing their tax returns could recoup such taxes through reduced income tax rates. For those at the lower end of the economic scale, such taxes could be offset by credits.

[Rockitz]

Ooops- missed the concluding point-

As described, it's not regressive.

[freedumb2003]

The only detterrent they would understand is shooting them at the border.

Which, by the way, I am in favor of.

Where do you think you are? Do you think you can get away with this kind of crap?? I am tempted to turn you in to the AM.

How DARE you end a sentence in a preposition! The proper way to say it is: Of which, by the way, I am in favor

Watch yourself. I'll be keeping tabs....

;>)

[helper]

Well the Govt has themselves in a Catch 22, because when SS# were first issued complete confidentiality was assured under law. So by law they can't give you a number to call and verify. Not only that, but why an I to be the policeman. Suppose I call the Govt number to verify a prospective employee, get a barely literate Govt worker who mistakenly says No. Next thing I see is the prospective employee's Lawyer. Will the Govt admit their mistake and defend me at their expense? Never happened, and never will.

[Bikers4Bush]

Lol!

[Rockitz]

We need some polititians with some damned BALLS to stand up and do what is right for this country AS A WHOLE

I was young and believed this was possible once. Now I'm jaded and know that NO BALLS is pretty much in the job description for a politician.

My proposal is something I think is possible in the current political climate, not all the other utopian ideas that have been presented. Being idealistic is a luxury that will not get you too far in politics. Sometimes you have to be pragmatic in your approach to achieve the desired goal. I think my proposal will achieve the goal.

I am just as disappointed as anyone that our president has chosen to do so little on this issue.

[MissAmericanPie]

I love it, you are a genius. Except there should be a moratorium on immigration for the next one or two decades, until all illegals from every country are either registered, or deported.

Their registration is only good for six months, then they must give proof of employment, SS number, pay check stubs, no money under the table jobs.

Most especially they shall not vote in any local or national election. To insure against it, their drivers license should have a large see through V across it. And every voter must present his license to check against voter registration rolls in national elections.


While each state has the right to conduct in state elections in any manner they choose, States that work to protect the legitimacy of the ballot box need protection from states like California and others that seek to obstruct the votes of legitimate citizens in national elections by letting illegals vote.

There should be a national standard involving national elections and all states should be required to uphold those standards.

[spirit_free]

Ya know ... (deep breath), I won't even go into the subject of my insurance. That is another issue that shouldn't even be brought up. I don't need to be reminded by YOU what my insurance and everything else costs me due to illegal immigration. Thank you very much!

I don't believe you have a total grasp of reality here. I know you think your tax might help ... and I know your tax will not. I have so many cases in point that proves my belief and so do many others here.

ENFORCEMENT WORKS! Yep, everytime it is tried. We just have politicians (like you want to be), that go off in every other direction. Viewing the problem of illegal immigration as you do would cause you NOT to get a vote from me. End of story.

If anyone reading this (other than Rockitz) knows where I can go to become an active participant in changing what is happening to our beatiful state due to illegal immigration ... please let me know where to go to get active on this. I would rather be part of the solution than part of the problem.

[fightu4it]

"First, let me say that I believe that those who do venture to this country are among the brightest and hardest working individuals that the world has to offer."

Yes, we saw a fine example of that on 9-11-01.

Which is precisely why we have to stop the illegals from crossing into this country. If the INS didn't have their heads up their asses it wouldn't have happened. They were in hear "legally" which only shows that the battle must be fought at more than just the borders. We need to clean up the borders and the immigration statutes.

[hardhead]

I have always thought that a VAT is FAR preferable to the IRS! A VAT could go directly into the U.S. Treasury to fund defense and give those poor overworked souls in congress a raise ;o)> Think about it - with no exceptions a VAT would make all scumbags and criminals pay for their own demise. You don't collect tax from an illegal being paid under the table. Crack dealers sure as hell don't pay tax on the blood money they reap. Even a drug dealer has to buy a car, clothing, food, housing, bullets, toilet paper....... The @#$%^&* IRS is a blood-sucking out-of-control agency. Eliminate it!

[Rockitz]

You get it. Thanks.

[William Terrell]

Diplomacy is only effective before invasion.