Illegal Immigration: A Possible Solution

Self ^ | 8/29/2003 | Rockitz

[Rockitz]

I am an engineer so I love a good problem and illegal immigration certainly fits that bill. First, let me say that I believe that those who do venture to this country are among the brightest and hardest working individuals that the world has to offer. Certainly it takes a special person to consciously decide to make such a radical change in their life. Having said that, the idea of being in opposition to the law tends to make such an individual operate in a manner that seeks to avoid detection. Accordingly, such a person would be hesitant to register their presence in any manner, whether it be through "official" employment, a bank account, a credit card, a regular doctor, the Department of Motor Vehicles, a post office, or any other activity that might make that person's presence known to law enforcement. As such, norms of society such as paying income tax, DMV registration, health insurance, and the like are naturally avoided through cash compensation for work, operating vehicles without a license or registration, using public clinics and hospital emergency rooms for health maintenance, etc. While that means of operation may be appealing to the illegal immigrant on a number of counts, it leaves the remaining citizenry to pay the cost of government services like education, law enforcement, fire protection, infrastructure, and the like as well as higher costs for health care, auto insurance and other private services. While the illegal immigrant does pay certain state sales taxes, such payments are certainly a very small fraction of those paid by the average citizen who also pays federal and state income tax, social security, various insurances, etc.

National registration of alien workers, increased border security, and laws forbidding the hiring of illegal immigrants have significant costs in themselves and do little to attack the costs that the illegal immigrant imposes on society. A possible solution that does address these costs imposed by illegal immigration is collection of a Value Added Tax (VAT) or national or state-based sales tax. This tax would apply to all goods and services and ultimately make it difficult for an illegal immigrant to shirk responsibility for any of the myriad of costs that he routinely passes on to the remaining citizenry. Although all would pay it, those legal residents who are responsible in paying and filing their tax returns could recoup such taxes through reduced income tax rates. For those at the lower end of the economic scale, such taxes could be offset by credits. For those at the upper end of the economic scale, such taxes could be used to justify substantial decreases in income tax rates. While I personally believe that passing those collected taxes through the government is detestable on numerous counts including considerable inefficiencies and potential diversion to pet programs, the status quo is unacceptable and will ultimately bankrupt our states and nation. The idea of a VAT or national sales tax is far from original, however it is typically ignored by conservatives simply because it is a tax. I choose to look at it as a viable alternative tax policy that will close the "cash compensation" loophole and ultimately discourage illegal immigration.

[fortaydoos]

Fair enough. I still rather have the 20 million illegals out of my country (I realize that is a lot to ask of our government, which is so busy shipping my cash to Africa for Aids, and getting ready to fund retired millionaire's prescription drugs to the tune of 400 billion or so)

[Bikers4Bush]

I don't believe for a second that you meant all immigrants.

[Bikers4Bush]

And I don't believe it for a second. The title of his post says it all.

Revising history is something that is best left to the dems.

[Rockitz]

I don't believe for a second that you meant all immigrants.

I absolutely did! Accept it. Revision is not my style. I'd really rather accept the pain of a mistake. See post #69. I've already fallen all over myself for my writing.

[rolling_stone]

Well I support a National Retail Sales Tax for some of your reasons, and mostly to eliminate our current waste of billions of dollars and man hours in the preparation of taxes..it would also allow US companies to compete better at home and abroad.

The proposed NRST would allow a family consumption allowance (rebate)for all legal residents. It would not be giving money to lawbreakers...

http://www.salestax.org/

[Rockitz]

I still rather have the 20 million illegals out of my country.

Agreed, but sometimes the end justifies the means.

[WhiteGuy]

Excellent point.

[Rockitz]

Yikes!! I'll say it again. Relying on enforcement doesn't work.

Have you gotten your auto insurance statement recently? There is a line item in your list of coverages that says "uninsured motorist." In my state and I hazard to guess in most states, it is illegal to drive without insurance. Does that prevent people from driving without insurance? Hardly.

1. We need another deterrent to illegal immigration!!! Fear of the law and enforcement of the law are not performing as hoped!

2. A VAT, while detestable on many counts, discourages those who live on cash compensation by increasing the cost of living to a level that should give anyone coming here illegally pause.

3. The implementation is ideally revenue neutral for those legal residents who are responsible in paying and filing their tax returns.

[Rockitz]

What we have here is a failure to communicate. Do you understand what the term "revenue neutral" means?

[Bikers4Bush]

The only detterrent they would understand is shooting them at the border.

Which, by the way, I am in favor of.

[Rockitz]

I get to talk with immigrant workers using an interpreter regularly. I am here to tell you that the adjective "bright" isn't the first thing that usually comes to mind.

See post #79.

[Rockitz]

See my post #88.

[mtbopfuyn]

First, let me say that I believe that those who do venture to this country are among the brightest and hardest working individuals that the world has to offer.

That's the last I read. Bu-bye.

[rolling_stone]

My solution to the illegal alien problem is to first have our government decide they want to do something about it. Until they do nothing is going to change..

We need a million man march on Washington to let them know we are tired and fed up and aren't going to take it anymore.

The President of the US needs to publicly announce that aliens are not welcome here and those here will be rounded up and sent home. No amnesty. If we don't have control over our borders, and its inhabitants, we are not a sovereign nation.

the People brought an end to segregation, the Vietnam War and prohibition, and they can end the illegal alien problem...

We need a constitutional amendment to change the situation wher anyone born in the US is a US citizen to where only those born in the US of legal residents are citizens, and those born to illegal parents are not.

We need a constitutional amendment prohibiting taxpayers benefits/money being paid to illegal aliens. No school, no welfare, nothing paid by taxpayers.

We need an amendment to make English our language and have all public documents and ballots etc printed in English only.

We need someone with guts to do the right thing...

[sixmil]

I am an engineer so I love a good problem and illegal immigration certainly fits that bill.

You must be a social engineer, because I don't see anything that even comes close to making sense in your proposal.

[Rockitz]

I lost a lot of people at that sentence. It takes reading quite a bit of the thread to understand that I meant all immigrants, not just illegals. The gist is summarized in post #88.

Relying on enforcement doesn't work.

1. We need another deterrent to illegal immigration!!! Fear of the law and enforcement of the law are not performing as hoped!

2. A VAT [value added tax], while detestable on many counts, discourages those who live on cash compensation by increasing the cost of living to a level that should give anyone coming here illegally pause.

3. The implementation [of my proposal] is ideally revenue neutral for those legal residents who are responsible in paying and filing their tax returns.

[Rockitz]

Think out of the box and try to quell your knee jerk reaction to the terms VAT or tax!

[taxed2death]

...sorry, I don't / can't agree with one more tax. So you agree that you don't like "selective law enforcement"? Do you think there is a way to compell gub-mint workers to actually do their job(s)?

Why enforce some laws and not others. I think we need to fix that problem first before laying on another tax. One more tax just gives a$$hole polititians one more chance to mis appropiate the money, on, and on, and on, and on......

see social security for more details.....I here it's in a "lock-box"......


Where?

[Rockitz]

In an alternate universe, perhaps.

Remember, politicians are gutless and spineless. This is a pragmatic approach that if implemented correctly (I know that's a big if) will achieve the desired results of:

1. Less illegal immigration.
2. Less of a new class of destitute in the nation.
3. Less use of our nation's emergency rooms for health care.
4. Less uninsured motorists.
5. Less taxes on legal residents.
6. Less insurance costs for legal residents.
7. Less need for illegal immigration enforcement and the associated costs.

On the downside, given an irresponsible government, it can be used to tax us into oblivion. The risk is high, but the potential gain is high and it certainly beats the hell out of the current situation.

The end may entirely justify the means. As I said in a prior post, it applies the liberal tool of incrementalism in the opposite direction in a form that's palatable to the politicians.

[helper]

As an employer I can tell you that a lot of illegals use phoney SS#'s and Fed taxes, SS taxes, and state tax are paid
I think this is the dirty little secret that prevents the Feds from taking any action. I did a little calculation assuming 30% of the IA's used phoney SS, and made 15K P/Y.
I came up with about 5B in money that would never have to be refunded, or paid out in SS.

Let me tell you haw it works. If a worker starts to work for someone say in January tax deposits are made all year, but NO SS# is reported until the final filing in February of the following year. It takes about 6 months after that filing for the IRS to send you a letter saying the SS# doesn't match. You ask the employee about it, they say "sorry I made a mistake here is the correct number". It will take at least another 3 months for the IRS to tell you that's not correct. In the meantime the employee has found a new job.

This can go on for ever. State unemployment forms are filed on a quartly basis and they ask for SS# and names, but they could care less if they are IA's they just want the money on time.

I do support the VAT or some form of Flat tax because the IRS regs are simply out of control, conflicting, and too costly to comply with.

However I think the Pols are real happy with all this money they are getting under the current system.