Should Schwarzenegger quit?

The Washington Times ^ | August 28, 2003 | Op-Ed

[TERMINATTOR]

Not really. Nor do we think Republicans Tom McClintock and Peter Ueberroth should get out of the race. At least not yet.

Well, maybe Mr. Ueberroth should. His blandness and lack of energy will not do.

The Democrats already have their Gray candidate. What's more, Mr. Ueberroth doesn't seem to be much more specific than Arnold Schwarzenegger, the frontrunner among Republicans currently in the race. But, then again, Mr. Ueberroth's nonpartisan pitch overrides his token Republicanism. For example, he's the only Republican in the race to oppose Proposition 187, the 1994 initiative barring state benefits to illegal aliens. Does this country-club Republican think he'll get Latino voters away from Democratic Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante? Indeed, in this crazy election, Mr. Ueberroth could end up with more Democrats and independent voters than Republicans.

[truth_seeker]

"Amazing. With their strategy and tactics one would think that the person with the fewest votes won, not the most."

McClintock campaign phrase:

"Hey you, stupid rino, vote for me."

[Cultural Jihad]

Lots of nuances there: wouldn't Tom be great; but maybe he can't win; Arnold probably will be okay (better by far than Cruz/Gray) and we shouldn't reject him out of hand; but, we surely need Tom to stay in, in case Arnold fails.

You have a good grip on reality. Would that others did, too.

[Cultural Jihad]

You are quick to accuse others of being fifth columnists, just for not wanting Bustamonte to become governor. Perhaps we should level that charge against you, just to be fair?

[Tempest]

I looked at the donor rolls on the Sec. of State's site and could not find any tribal donations

Let me help you out with those emerald glasses you're wearing for McClintock.

Bustamante and McClintock playing for the same team: http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/08/28/davis.recall.ap/index.html

"Davis, Bustamante and McClintock also were meeting with the California Nations Indian Gaming Association, which represents 57 tribal governments. The group will not endorse a candidate, but its members have become an influential political force capable of boosting campaign coffers."

You know, if you tried going outside of McClintocks own campaign site sometime, you'd realize the truth and see that the world is not a bubble.

[truth_seeker]

"Do you have any predictions on turnout?"

A news item today said the dems would hold a "convention" for this issue. Kinda looks like they DO take it SERIOUSLY. They also show evidence of taking it seriously, by having ONE prominent candidate.

Republicans, on the other hand, show evidence of normal self-destructive behavior. If there is even still a "California Republican Party" I wouldn't expect them to be capable of organizing a get-out-the-vote drive on election day.

Hence, it will be self-motivated Republicans, splitting their votes, against organized dems.

On the personal level, this Republican (since 1974) wants his California taxes lowered. Wants vehicle registration reduced. Wants it now.

If the only available path for that is Arnold, so be it.

It ain't called "the Stupid Party" for no reason.

[My2Cents]

Funny, I thought we were all conservatives as well.

We are. But what I've found in these debates is that some conservatives have gotten so used to losing elections, that they get satisfaction simply by voting their convictions, no matter how hopeless the cause is. Then there are conservatives (not "RINOS" -- that's a despicable term used mainly by people who are not even Republican In Name) who are willing to accept less than 100% in order to get someone elected who can at least represent some of their convictions. Therein is the split, and the divergence of opinion among conservatives on FR -- some are ivory tower conservatives who will not vote for someone who deviates more than a few degrees from the pure blue-flame conservative line, and then there are others who see the political battles as trench warfare who realize that winning the war is a long process and all that's before them is to simply take the next trench.

Arnold is half-a-loaf at best, but his commitment to improving California's business climate and his conviction that Californian's are overtaxed are good enough for me.

[My2Cents]

Well stated. Too bad none of the McClintock supporters are listening to you.

[My2Cents]

Bump! As Hugh Hewitt said wrote last week to the McClintock supporters, " I suspect the final number of combined thrown-away GOP votes will be less than 10 percent. That probably won't be enough to give the election to Cruz, but if it is, can I send any one of you my car tax bill?"

[truth_seeker]

You, Registered, obviously do not appreciate the satisfaction that comes from crashing and burning for the umpteenth time, but with one's ideological purity completely intact. Kool aid, anyone?


122 posted on 08/28/2003 1:46 PM PDT by j.havenfarm (My California: Home of the patented Republican circular firing squad.)

I Love it. California: Home of the patented "Republican Circular Firing Squad"

This is one state party that could use the olde fashioned "smokey backrooms."

[Undivided Heart]

I'm voting for the Republican who is ahead in the polls. I have come to believe that we can't change things from the top down. I disagree with Arnold on lots of social issues. I just don't see how we can move from left to right in one big bite, especially in the top down approach.

The way I see it, we need to get off our lazy arses and convince people that conservatism is superior, and expose the agenda of the Democrats - face to face. I don't see how we can expect a representative government to change things so they will be the way I like them. A real representative government represents the views of the people, they don't take us anywhere.

Our first priority is to solve our economic issues. While that is happening, we should bide our time and influence our neighbors to swing them to the right on both social and economic issues.

[RS]

"More than likely they'd just stay home and not bother. Having to vote between Liberal(D) and Liberal(R) isn't exactly a choice. "

So they wouldn't bother to vote on Prop 54 ?
So they wouldn't bother to vote to kick Davis out ?

If they really don't care about CA at all, why bother supporting anyone... why bother being on FR ?

Tom hasn't really accomplished anything in years - and even if he gets elected he can't push his agenda through a Dem Legislature... so why bother ?

[My2Cents]

just who would Tom's ex-supporters vote for if Tom quit

They'll have to speak for themselves, but I wouldn't be surprised if they stayed at home and sat on their hands. I've only seen one McClintock supporter over the past three weeks of posts here on FR say that if Arnold is ahead by election day, he'll vote for Arnold.

One of the problems is that inspite of arguing from "logic," too many McClintock supporters have invested too much emotion in his candidacy, and that emotion has turned into irrational hatred for Arnold. They have gone too far out on a limb to admit, in the end, that voting for Arnold is the only real option. They've excoriated Arnold too much on these threads. They couldn't vote for him; they have their pride to think about. Now, had they argued from principle, but said from the very start that while they support McClintock, they will vote for whichever Republican is ahead by election day, they'd have room to maneuver. But now they've boxed themselves in.

[RS]

"They'll have to speak for themselves, but I wouldn't be surprised if they stayed at home and sat on their hands. "

Lets just hope they think enough about CA to turn out to evict Davis and to vote on Prop 54.
I would bet that most except the fanatics would realize they would prefer the R behind the Gov's name rather the the D.

[pogo101]

Oh, I think many McClintock rooters will go for Arnold if he looks like the only one of the two who can beat Cruz late in the game. Oddly enough, most of my "drive time talk show" hosts are in that boat: Al Rantel, John & Ken, Larry Elder. (Bill Handel likes McClintock but is probably already preferring Arnold.)

[pogo101]

Tom hasn't really accomplished anything in years

I think you're being too hard in him there. McClintock's taken a lot of lonely but RIGHT stances against waste. Maybe one day he will be compare to Churchill during his years in the political wilderness in the 30s because he was right about the Nazis before people were ready to listen. "Success" and "accomplishment" can be defined in lots of ways, in any case.

(Full disclosure: I'm another McClintock fan who's likely to vote for Arnold unless McC makes a big surge by election day.)

[truth_seeker]

"Ueberroth takes much more away from Ahnold than McClintock does since Ueberroth is basically campaigning as a "country club" Republican type."

So doesn't McClintock need "country club" Republican votes, either? You go on slurring, didiculing everybody - rinos, country club types - you ain't gonna wind up with much, at all.

I doubt that you ever noticed that people who don't get it, don't get it.

[RS]

""Tom hasn't really accomplished anything in years "

"I think you're being too hard in him there. McClintock's taken a lot of lonely but RIGHT stances against waste.""

That was about as light as I could say it -

As far as his stances against waste... just who was he in opposition to ?
Where were the ones saying "I am FOR waste" ?

He said he would de-fund many agencies on his first day, yet I dont see ONE agency listed by name that he would cut.
He hasn't figured it out yet ? Does he intend to go over the budget during breakfast ?

I expect these sort of generalities from Arnold - he hasn't been studying it for 20 years -
But I DO expect some specifics from Tom.



""Success" and "accomplishment" can be defined in lots of ways, in any case."

Most of them having something to do with being successfull and acomplishing something. Not many definitions of success include "failure" or "ineffectual" ( unless you speak to Democrats )

[ambrose]

People like to be on the "winning team", principles be damned.

All of you will be sorry, very very sorry.

[ambrose]

Another Fifth Columnist smearing the good name of Tom McClintock, I see.

[RS]

"All of you will be sorry, very very sorry."

I'm already very very sorry ( Simon was nominated )

I'll settle for just sorry. ( right now I'd be happy with neutral )

Cruz gets in and we are stuck with 2 verys for the next 3 years at least.