Judge Moore for President? Religious Conservatives & the Danger of Disrespecting a Popular Icon

22 Aug 03 | xzins

[xzins]

It is reported that Napoleon Bonaparte once said, “It is religion that keeps the poor from murdering the rich.” Rich is, of course, a relative term. One can be “rich” in money, and in the world of religion one can be “rich” in spirit, and in the political realm one can be “rich” in power.

Who is in danger of being murdered?

James Dobson, the leader of “Focus on the Family” has recently voiced his displeasure with the Republican Party over their failure to deliver benefits to the Christian conservatives for their support over these many years. Despite a Senate majority, despite a ‘conservative’ President, despite an iron-grip conservative hold on the House of Representatives, there is precious little (nothing?) from the conservative Christian agenda that has been successfully guided to implementation. In fact, there appears to be backward momentum.

Abortion is as big as ever. School vouchers are little experiments here and there but not under federal authority. Sexuality is now considered under the heading of a newfound freedom of ‘privacy’ that allows any sexual practice to escape even the most reasonable bio-medical review by a state legislature. Marriage is in jeopardy from Massachusetts to California as liberals successfully redefine that institution, considering any form of partnering leading to sexual release on the same par with a man and woman creating and rearing a family.

And now activist judges, seemingly in league with the ACLU, are excising our country’s religious symbols at what can only be described as a hostile pace. They are being permitted to dismantle America’s historic culture of Judeo-Christian morality and replace it with a culture that these judicial architects claim will be neutral, but which is in fact anti-theistic.

Permitted? Who is permitting it?

The religious conservatives would say, “Those we placed our hope in have permitted it. None of the big names stood with us on the firing line. None of them picked sides, went public with their verbal support, and then went public with their actions which demonstrated support.” Not even Attorney General John Ashcroft, the supposed insider religious conservative, spoke up. (John hasn’t spoken up in some time now. Is he gagged?)

We are reminded of the words of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.: "In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."

The Republican Party, very rich in power, is in danger from the common people who make up its religious base.

And right now Judge Roy Moore has immense “good will” with that same religious conservative base of the Republican Party. Where did this good will come from? In the eyes of those conservative Christians, Moore was willing to sacrifice himself for one of their concerns. Make no mistake, they trust this man. His stock is very high in that group at this moment.

We’re told that if Al Gore had received even one percent less of the African American vote, that the 2000 election wouldn’t have even been close. How much more if George W. Bush had received one percent less of the Christian conservative vote? We’re told that Bill Clinton won two elections without ever having a majority of the vote because Ross Perot took up to nineteen percent of the Republican vote away from them. The message is clear. A third candidate popular with religious conservatives will kill the Bush Re-election.

"Flatter me, and I may not believe you. Criticize me, and I may not like you. Ignore me, and I may not forgive you...." (William Arthur Ward.)

To refuse a hearing at the highest level is an insult to a man who in his own sphere has reached the top rung. Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, Judge Roy Moore, has definitely worked his way to a high enough position to have earned the right to be heard. And, in giving a hearing to Moore, they give a hearing to his supporters. Whether the powers in the Republican Party understand the necessity of giving him his hearing is entirely a different subject.

But, if I were an operative for the Constitution Party, and if I were a disgruntled conservative Christian, I would definitely see a man with tremendous name recognition, a solid base of support, and a whole boatload of determination.

Someone needs to talk real-politik to the Republican members of the Supreme Court.

[magellan]

Do you live in Alabama?

The monument was installed in the SCOA building during non-working hours, I don't remember if it was a weekend or weekday.

[Blood of Tyrants]

Why? Because Moore will force Bush's hand? The people who this monument "offends" are not likely to vote for him anyway. So if he takes back the power seceded to the judiciary years ago and refuses to enforce their decree, there is little political damage. He just needs to explain the seperation of powers principle and that there is no obligation on anyone to follow an order that is just plain wrong, much as the lowest private cannot be compelled to obey an unlawful order by the highest ranking general.

If he kowtows to the judiciary and the "big tent" Republicans he offends literally millions of Christians and Orthodox Jews who are MOST likely to vote for him.

[Blood of Tyrants]

Easy, executive order. A president can do a lot of good (or damage) to this country with executive orders.

[Right Wing Professor]

Ever since I've been a conservative, I've seen Christian conservatives threaten to take their toys and go home. They probably won't do it, and if they do, they'll probably shoot themselves in the foot. In a two party system, there is a natural tendency for the parties to position themselves to get a little more than half the vote. It doesn't always work in practice, but it's the optimal strategy. So if the Christian right walks, the Republicans will move a little to the left to captured more of the centrist vote. They know there's little danger of the Christian Right voting for the Democrats. The situation is very different from the 60s and 70s, when the parties were far less ideological, and a move to the right by the GOP allowed them to capture hitherto Democratic voters in the South.

The Christian right has only one workable strategy; to remain within the party and try to steer it to the right. Walk, and you throw one election to the Democrats, and the next election the GOP readjusts to capture swing votes in the center.

[Blood of Tyrants]

He snuck the stone into the building in the dead of night, because he knew he was in the wrong.

B.S. There are pictures of the monument being placed in broad daylight.

[=Intervention=]

It is interesting. PhiKap is also in the cheerleading section for Arnold (based on dubious "electability" numbers and polls which have since show him tanking).

[=Intervention=]

No I don't, but I am familiar enough with this to know that 1) he didn't sneak in, and 2) there were reasons for why it couldn't be installed during working hours. If you want more info, check other threads, or I'll go do it and post them here. The point is that this had been already discussed and disproven...

[xzins]

In terms of the practical versus the spoken, you are correct.

To gain entry to the rarified air of higher judicial activity, every nominee must affirm that they will uphold the current law.

To Ashcroft's discredit he went one step further than that and affirmed that he "would not even TRY to have those abortion laws changed."

[xzins]

I read/heard Judge Moore's own explanation of the event. They handled it just as any company would have in terms of safety. You wait to move a 5.5 ton piece of rock until after hours.

Even if you think it was nefarious, it's STILL the right decision in terms of public safety.

Therefore, Moore's explanation makes sense and is probably correct.

[Servant of the Nine]

" He snuck the stone into the building in the dead of night,"

This has already been disproved multiple times. Stop spreading lies.

Assuming you are technically correct on this point, I assume you then concede the rest of my arguments are factual.

So9

[xzins]

You overlook the idealistic among the Christian conservatives.

This past year has proven that they've gotten nothing -- nada -- from the Republicans.

'Why should they stay' will be what many of them ask themselves.

If you can name one major item on their agenda that has turned their way, even with this solidly Republican structure (they own the Presidency, the Senate, the House, and SCOTUS) then I'll give you a free cup of coffee.

The battle cry of California: Forget what you believe and vote Arnold anyway.

[Servant of the Nine]

He has a national following. I think he would be a solid vote-getter for one of the smaller conservative parties.

In other words, he ambitions are to become famous at the cost of electing Howard Dean President of the United States.

Obviously a patriot who really cares .... about himself.

So9

[Jim Noble]

Someone needs to talk real-politik to the Republican members of the Supreme Court.

There are none.

[xzins]

As stated above, I believe Moore would pull an enormous number of conservative Christian votes.

But only a few percent will doom the Republicans.

[xzins]

7 out of 9 if I correctly remember who appointed them.

But if you are speaking of the so-called "neutrality" of the judiciary....there is no such animal. I don't believe in it for even a moment.

[Jim Noble]

The proposition that abortion is "legal" is a fiction. Murder cannot ever be legalized, anytime, anywhere

Why do you suppose that this is the moment that the Decalogue must be banned from all of our Courts?

[BamaG]

I hope he runs for president. Just to get his sorry butt off the supreme court. He'd be doomed to the "Lyndon LaRouche ash-heap of kook candidates"

[Mo1]

And right now Judge Roy Moore has immense “good will” with that same religious conservative base of the Republican Party. Where did this good will come from? In the eyes of those conservative Christians, Moore was willing to sacrifice himself for one of their concerns. Make no mistake, they trust this man. His stock is very high in that group at this moment.

As I am glad that there is a fight to keep this monumnet, I haven't seen yet where Judge Moore has sacrifice himself. He hasn't been arrested and he hasn't lost his job as Supreme Court Justice.

[dogbyte12]

Senate or Governor... which one is he running for soon?

Who here among his supporters wants to place a bet that this isn't part of a political campaign for office? If you genuinely believe that every thing he is doing is because of the purest of intentions and motives and is not political at all in nature, I would like you to put your money where your mouth is for a change.

I will give any of you 2-1 odds that he is running for office with his "martyrdom" the central plank in his campaign. Freep mail me if you want to take the bet.

[xzins]

Seen through that lens, of course.

But seen through the eyes of people who are fed up with lip service, "What do we have to lose? What could Howard Dean do that hasn't been done in the last year?"

If I drive toward hell at the rate of the current 120 mph or a democratic 125 mph what difference does it make? I still end up in hell.

Remember the old "give peace a chance."

Some will finally admit that it's time to "give principle a chance."