US Supreme Court refuses to block removal of Ten Commandments

Sean Hannity Show ^ | 8-20-03 | Sean Hannity

[Atlas Sneezed]

US Supreme Court refuses to block removal of Ten Ccommandments from Alabama courthouse.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..tyranny in a republic opens a pandora's box. Respecting tyranny is submission to it...

Well said, Arthur.

I'm sorry to see so many of our fellow posters are lining up with the libs and the ACLU on this one. Can we charge 'em with Conduct Unbecoming A Freeper? Cheers, By

[cornelis]

The other issue is whether court orders must be obeyed

But there are even more issues here. It is the nature of a trial that each party contends the other has disobeyed orders. It's an old political question when the little guy is morally justified standing up to the big guy. Solzhenitsyn asked the question "when?" A pacifist say now, and like Gandhi, take it like sheep.

[cornelis]

lining up with the libs and the ACLU

I don't know if they're doing that. I think it's anti-religious animous that makes them forget their former arguments.

[VRWC_minion]

FYI

Did Bible writers believe the earth was flat?

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No, this false idea is not taught in Scripture!

Some Bible critics have claimed that Revelation 7:1 assumes a flat earth since the verse refers to angels standing at the "four corners" of the earth. Actually, the reference is to the cardinal directions: north, south, east, and west. Similar terminology is often used today when we speak of the sun's rising and setting, even though the earth, not the sun, is doing the moving. Bible writers used the "language of appearance," just as people always have. Without it, the intended message would be awkward at best and probably not understood clearly. [DD]

In the Old Testament, Job 26:7 explains that the earth is suspended in space, the obvious comparison being with the spherical sun and moon. [DD]

A literal translation of Job 26:10 is "He described a circle upon the face of the waters, until the day and night come to an end." A spherical earth is also described in Isaiah 40:21-22 - "the circle of the earth."

Proverbs 8:27 also suggests a round earth by use of the word circle (e.g., New King James Bible and New American Standard Bible). If you are overlooking the ocean, the horizon appears as a circle. This circle on the horizon is described in Job 26:10. The circle on the face of the waters is one of the proofs that the Greeks used for a spherical earth. Yet here it is recorded in Job, ages before the Greeks discovered it. Job 26:10 indicates that where light terminates, darkness begins. This suggests day and night on a spherical globe. [JSM]

The Hebrew record is the oldest, because Job is one of the oldest books in the Bible. Historians generally [wrongly] credit the Greeks with being the first to suggest a spherical earth. In the sixth century B.C., Pythagoras suggested a spherical earth. [JSM]

Eratosthenes of Alexandria (circa 276 to 194 or 192 B.C.) calcuated the circumference of the earth "within 50 miles of the present estimate." [Encyclopedia Brittanica]

The Greeks also drew meridians and parallels. They identified such areas as the poles, equator, and tropics. This spherical earth concept did not prevail; the Romans drew the earth as a flat disk with oceans around it. [JSM]

The round shape of our planet was a conclusion easily drawn by watching ships disappear over the horizon and also by observing eclipse shadows, and we can assume that such information was well known to New Testament writers. Earth's spherical shape was, of course, also understood by Christopher Columbus. [DD]

The implication of a round earth is seen in the book of Luke, where Jesus described his return, Luke 17:31. Jesus said, "In that day," then in verse 34, "In that night." This is an allusion to light on one side of the globe and darkness on the other simultaneously. [JSM]

"When the Bible touches on scientific subjects, it is entirely accurate." [DD]

Read more...

But, doesn't the Bible refer to "the four corners of the earth." How can a spherical earth have corners? Answer...

Who invented the concept of a flat Earth? Answer...

[Dog Gone]

Despicable as that was, it's not analagous to this situation.

The US Congress is fully within its Constitutional rights to block any funds to enforce the decision of the 11th Circuit. I don't have any problem with that, except that it sets up a Constitutional crisis, which would be messy.

What I do have is a problem with is a judge refusing to recognize and comply with the instructions of a court which is superior to his. He is damaging the judicial system by his actions.

Some people, maybe even most people, here think that's great. It is not.

[Labyrinthos]

The Alabama Constitution says their justice system is established in 'invoking the guidance of almighty God.'

And each Judge in Alabama has the right to pray to Almighty God for guidance in administering Justice. What they can't do, however, is to use their public position to promote their particular brand of religious beliefs.

[rwfromkansas]

Um, Scripture speaks of the "sphere" of the Earth...IN THE OLD TESTAMENT!

[VRWC_minion]

Who invented the flat Earth?

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Contrary to what most people think, the Earth was known to be spherical in ancient times. The ancient Greeks even calculated its circumferance with surprising accuracy.

Evolutionists often falsely accuse creationists of believing in a flat Earth. But neither history nor modern scholarship supports the claim that Christians ever widely believed that the Earth was flat. And the Bible doesn't teach it.

Christianity has often been accused of opposing science and hindering technology throughout history by superstitious ignorance. However, a closer study of historical facts shows that this accusation is ill-founded.

For instance, Christianity has been held responsible for promoting the flat Earth theory. In his book The Discovers, author Daniel Boorstin stated:

"A Europe-wide phenomenon of scholarly amnesia . . . afflicted the continent from AD 300 to at least 1300. During those centuries Christian faith and dogma suppressed the useful image of the world that had been so slowly, so painfully, and so scrupulously drawn by ancient geographers."

Yet, it was only a handful of so-called intellectual scholars throughout the centuries, claiming to represent the Church, who held to a flat Earth. Most of these were ignored by the Church, yet somehow their writings made it into early history books as being the 'official Christian viewpoint'.

Lactantius

The earliest of these flat-Earth promoters was the African Lactantius (AD 245–325), a professional rhetorician who converted to Christianity mid-life.

He rejected all the Greek philosophers, and in doing so also rejected a spherical Earth. His views were considered heresy by the Church Fathers and his work was ignored until the Renaissance (at which time some humanists revived his writings as a model of good Latin, and of course, his flat Earth view also was revived).

Cosmas Indicopleustes and Church Fathers

Next was sixth century Eastern Greek Christian, Cosmas Indicopleustes, who claimed the Earth was flat and lay beneath the heavens (consisting of a rectangular vaulted arch). His work also was soundly rejected by the Church Fathers, but liberal historians have usually claimed his view as typical of that of the Church Fathers.

US Library of Congress head, Daniel Boorstin (quoted above), like historians before him, simply followed the pattern of others without checking the facts. In fact, most of the Church Fathers did not address the issue of the shape of the Earth, and those who did regarded it as "round" or spherical.

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Washington Irving and Rip Van Winkle

In 1828, American writer Washington Irving (author of Rip Van Winkle) published a book entitled The Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus. It was a mixture of fact and fiction, with Irving himself admitting he was "apt to indulge in the imagination."

Its theme was the victory of a lone believer in a spherical Earth over a united front of Bible-quoting, superstitious ignoramuses, convinced the Earth was flat. In fact, the well-known argument and the Council of Salamanca was about the dubious distance between Europe and Japan which Columbus presented--it had nothing to do with the shape of the Earth.

Later Writers Repeated the Error

In 1834, the anti-Christian Letronne falsely claimed that most of the Church Fathers, including Augustine, Ambrose and Basil, held to a flat Earth. His work has been repeatedly cited as "reputable" ever since.

In the late nineteenth century, the writings of John William Draper and Andrew Dickson White were responsible for promoting the myth that the church taught a flat Earth. Both had Christian backgrounds, but rejected these early in life.

Englishman Draper convinced himself that with the downfall of the Roman Empire the 'affairs of men fell into the hands of ignorant and infuriated ecclesiastics, parasites, eunuchs and slaves' — these were the 'Dark Ages'. Draper's work, History of the Conflict between Religion and Science (1874), was directed particularly against the Roman Church, and was a best seller.

Meanwhile White (who founded Cornell University as the first explicitly secular university in the United States), published the two-volume scholarly work History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom, in 1896.

Both men incorrectly portrayed a continuing battle through the Christian era between the defenders of ignorance and the enlightened rationalists. In fact, not only did the church not promote the flat Earth, it is clear from such passages as Isaiah 40:22 that the Bible implies it is spherical. (Non-literal figures of speech such as the 'four corners of the Earth' are still used today.)

Encyclopedias Erase the Myth

While many will have lost their faith through the writing of such men as Irving, Draper and White, it is gratifying to know that the following encyclopaedias now present the correct account of the Columbus affair: The New Encyclopaedia Britannica (1985), Colliers Encyclopaedia (1984), The Encyclopedia Americana (1987) and The World Book for Children (1989).

There is still a long way to go before the average student will know that Christianity did not invent or promote the myth of the flat Earth.

Author: Adapted by Ian Taylor for Creation Science Association of Ontario, Feature No. 30, from the book Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus & Modern Historians (ISBN 027595904X), by history professor Jeffrey Burton Russell. Summarized by Paula Weston, née McKerlie. Supplied by Answers in Genesis and published in Creation Ex Nihilo magazine, Vol. 16, No. 2, pp. 48–49.

Charles Darwin, the most famous promoter of evolutionism.

Flat-Earth HeyDay Came with Darwin

The idea that the earth is flat is a modern concoction that reached its peak only after Darwinists tried to discredit the Bible, an American history professor says.

Jeffrey Burton Russell is a professor of history at the University of California in Santa Barbara. He says in his book Inventing the Flat Earth (written for the 500th anniversary of Christopher Columbus's journey to America in 1492) that through antiquity and up to the time of Columbus, "nearly unanimous scholarly opinion pronounced the earth spherical."

Russell says there is nothing in the documents from the time of Columbus or in early accounts of his life that suggests any debate about the roundness of the earth. He believes a major source of the myth came from the creator of the Rip Van Winkle story-Washington Irving-who wrote a fictitious account of Columbus's defending a round earth against misinformed clerics and university professors.

But Russell says the flat earth mythology flourished most between 1870 and 1920, and had to do with the ideological setting created by struggles over evolution. He says the flat-earth myth was an ideal way to dismiss the ideas of a religious past in the name of modern science.

The Bible of course teaches the correct shape of the earth. Isaiah 40:22 says God sits above 'the circle of the earth' (the Hebrew word for 'circle' can also mean a 'sphere'). Also, Luke 17:34-36 depicts Christ's Second Coming as happening while some are asleep at night and others are working at day-time activities in the field-an indication of a rotating earth with day and night at the same time.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

Outrage against tyranny is only natural. I saw it coming. And those idiots should have realised they were going too far years ago. As difficult as it is to say, we should not kill any judges. I realise that people are going to ignore me, because I said we could handle Clinton without any violence, but I have to try. True, these judges might come out of it unscathed, just like Clinton. But killing is wrong. It can easilly backfire on the cause you are killing for. It would be terrorism in this case.

And I really RESENT having to hold back violent killers because other conservatives don't have the guts to do the right thing and stand up to these ACLU clowns like men!

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..the only tyrant here is Moore...

Ha!

Easy, dude. You nearly sent the needle off the chart.

[Arthur Wildfire! March]

TY for the kind words. The best punishment of foolish posts is to keep them there. Let them live with what they said tonight. FReegards....

[Southack]

Believe me, I recognize your point. The exception to it is only if Judge Moore is later proven to be correct in his interpretation of the Law, a very risky and dangerous proposition (considering that anyone could claim such in every other possible issue brought before the Courts).

What gives the edge to Judge Moore in this case is that he's willing to accept the penalties for his defiance in the meantime, under the presumption that he will eventually be proven to be correct.

[rwfromkansas]

lol You kill me. Kennedy is PRESBYTERIAN, not a health and wealth Gospel Charismatic preacher or something.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...it was perhaps a stretch, but we either have to play within the rules (while never giving up our objectives) or we are anarchists, especially in a matter like this...

Copout Alert!

Doggie, if the Founders played it as safe as you're recommending, where do you think the US would be today? A Canadian province?

[cornelis]

Here's a winner from Robert_Paulson2:

"Whatever the feds rule, will be the law. Love it or hate it, it's all we have."

[rwfromkansas]

BTW, please see post 541 and 491.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..TY for the kind words...

No probs, champ. And nice work, on this thread.

If you need any help in stripping these Moore-bashers of their ammo, and rolling them into the ditch, just let me know. Cheers, By

[Dog Gone]

Look, Byron, if you're advocating overthrow of the US Government just say so.

[cornelis]

if you're advocating overthrow of the US Government just say so.

This must be your mantra.