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New Dinosaur Species Found in India
AP ^ | August 13, 2003 | RAMOLA TALWAR BADAM

Posted on 08/13/2003 9:02:05 PM PDT by nwrep

New Dinosaur Species Found in India
2 hours, 55 minutes ago
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By RAMOLA TALWAR BADAM, Associated Press Writer

BOMBAY, India - U.S. and Indian scientists said Wednesday they have discovered a new carnivorous dinosaur species in India after finding bones in the western part of the country.

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The new dinosaur species was named Rajasaurus narmadensis, or "Regal reptile from the Narmada," after the Narmada River region where the bones were found.

The dinosaurs were between 25-30 feet long, had a horn above their skulls, were relatively heavy and walked on two legs, scientists said. They preyed on long-necked herbivorous dinosaurs on the Indian subcontinent during the Cretaceous Period at the end of the dinosaur age, 65 million years ago.

"It's fabulous to be able to see this dinosaur which lived as the age of dinosaurs came to a close," said Paul Sereno, a paleontologist at the University of Chicago. "It was a significant predator that was related to species on continental Africa, Madagascar and South America."

Working with Indian scientists, Sereno and paleontologist Jeff Wilson of the University of Michigan reconstructed the dinosaur skull in a project funded partly by the National Geographic (news - web sites) Society.

A model of the assembled skull was presented Wednesday by the American scientists to their counterparts from Punjab University in northern India and the Geological Survey of India during a Bombay news conference.

Scientists said they hope the discovery will help explain the extinction of the dinosaurs and the shifting of the continents — how India separated from Africa, Madagascar, Australia and Antarctica and collided with Asia.

The dinosaur bones were discovered during the past 18 years by Indian scientists Suresh Srivastava of the Geological Survey of India and Ashok Sahni, a paleontologist at Punjab University.

When the bones were examined, "we realized we had a partial skeleton of an undiscovered species," Sereno said.

The scientists said they believe the Rajasaurus roamed the Southern Hemisphere land masses of present-day Madagascar, Africa and South America.

"People don't realize dinosaurs are the only large-bodied animal that lived, evolved and died at a time when all continents were united," Sereno said.

The cause of the dinosaurs' extinction is still debated by scientists. The Rajasaurus discovery may provide crucial clues, Sereno said.

India has seen quite a few paleontological discoveries recently.

In 1997, villagers discovered about 300 fossilized dinosaur eggs in Pisdura, 440 miles northeast of Bombay, that Indian scientists said were laid by four-legged, long-necked vegetarian creatures.

Indian scientists said the dinosaur embryos in the eggs may have suffocated during volcanic eruptions.


TOPICS: Front Page News; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: acanthostega; antarctica; australia; catastrophism; crevolist; dino; dinosaurs; godsgravesglyphs; ichthyostega; india; madagascar; narmadabasin; narmadensis; paleontology; rajasaurus; rino
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To: Ichneumon
No they are not. Sometimes they are a loss of information (e.g. excisions), sometimes they are a change in information (e.g. point mutations), sometimes they are a gain of information (e.g. duplications).
Duplications does not equal the kind of added information that evolution requires.

Why isn't it a dinosaur with a bit of a bird? For the same reason that a dog with fur and a long tail is not a "bit of a cat." They are two different kinds of creatures.
1,701 posted on 08/20/2003 2:23:16 PM PDT by DittoJed2
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To: DittoJed2
Many of these scientist, such as Crick, offer non-Darwinian theories of evolution.

That doesn't mean he disbelieves in evolution. Crick has been quoted in 1984 as saying Orgel's Second Law is "evolution in cleverer than you are" He has advised people 'for the sake of their soul' to read Dawkins' 'The Blind Watchmaker'. The page is misrepresenting Crick's development of a speculative hypothesis about panspermia as a rejection of evolution.

He's also a committed atheist, who resigned from his college in Oxford to protest their building a chapel.

1,702 posted on 08/20/2003 2:23:48 PM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: DittoJed2
Looking forward to that one.
1,703 posted on 08/20/2003 2:24:04 PM PDT by goodseedhomeschool (returned) (If history has shown us anything, labeling ignorance science, proves scripture correct)
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To: BMCDA
It is new information perception wise, but it does not change the fundamental nature of the pie. It is still a pie.
1,704 posted on 08/20/2003 2:25:11 PM PDT by DittoJed2
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To: DittoJed2; VadeRetro
I don't meant the artist's rendition but the actual fossil to the right. In this picture it's a bit small but VadeRetro had larger version where you actually could see the feathers.
1,705 posted on 08/20/2003 2:27:32 PM PDT by BMCDA
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To: Right Wing Professor
Uh, yes, I know that. And, if you look at my comments, I said that not all of those folks were creationists. They just doubt Darwin. There are several theories of evolution out there, showing that even in the scientific community Darwin's hypothesis is far from proven. If you destroy the dating system of evolution then you destroy the theory. The web link I sent was people who doubt Darwin and/or agree that his theory of evolution needs to be reevaluated. There are major problems in the theory that even athiestic evolutionary thinkers acknowledge.
1,706 posted on 08/20/2003 2:28:04 PM PDT by DittoJed2
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To: BMCDA
It is debatable as to whether those are feathers, and there is nothing in creationism that disallows for feathers on a dinosaur. It doesn't make him a bird or a transitional species.
1,707 posted on 08/20/2003 2:29:18 PM PDT by DittoJed2
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To: general_re
Be advised, if you pick a single point and successfully defend it, that success will be marginalized and called meaningless

No fair, old chap - touchdown dances are for after you actually score ;)

Interesting, too, that success for a creationst, in the view of this FReeper, is managing to get one thing right. That's below even the broken-clock criterion.

1,708 posted on 08/20/2003 2:42:59 PM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: DittoJed2
Which was a bird. Try to keep up.

Archaeopteryx was a bird certainly, one of those birds with clawed hands, a bony tail, and teeth.

Know of any other birds like that?

1,709 posted on 08/20/2003 2:49:33 PM PDT by Right Wing Professor
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To: Piltdown_Woman
AND you were supposed to keep that island a secret!

Yeah, isn't that the island where the ET's go for R&R with Earth women who um, have an open-minded attitude about precious bodily fluids?

1,710 posted on 08/20/2003 3:09:27 PM PDT by longshadow
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To: Right Wing Professor
Hoatzins and Ostriches and apparently other bird species have claws on their wings. Baby birds are born with a tooth like appendage that helps them get out of their shell, so they must have the genetics to form teeth. And, a bony tail could be just a micro-evolution adaptation of a creature or some strange genetic mutation. It doesn't turn him into part dinosaur or indicate that he is a transitional species at all. Further, feathers and scales are quite different and one can not become the other. They don't have the right make up for that.
1,711 posted on 08/20/2003 3:12:49 PM PDT by DittoJed2
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To: DittoJed2
It is new information perception wise...

Then I don't know what definition of information you use.
Meaning is dependent on perception but then it is not quantifiable as is the case with information.

...but it does not change the fundamental nature of the pie. It is still a pie.

And orangutans, gorillas, chimpanzees, bonobos and humans are still hominoids.

1,712 posted on 08/20/2003 3:14:56 PM PDT by BMCDA
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To: DittoJed2
It's even getting worse, marginalized even before a successful point.
1,713 posted on 08/20/2003 3:18:07 PM PDT by AndrewC
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To: DittoJed2
Punctuated equillibrium explains such jumps (species separates from parent and evolves quickly. Returns to the fold and replaces parent species.)

"Quickly" still refers to several thousand or tens of thousands of generations, though.

1,714 posted on 08/20/2003 3:45:29 PM PDT by Junior (Killed a six pack ... just to watch it die.)
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To: BMCDA; DittoJed2
It's not mine! It has its own page on the American Museum of Natural History site.

As far as the feathers not being feathers (per that AiG claim), that's pretty debatable.

A clue to what's going on: this is probably the second Sinornithosaurus ever found. Much or all of the literature AiG and some others quote refers to the first fossil, a less clear and pretty (but fully adult) specimen shown below. There's more room for claiming the feathers might be something else on the first one.

Above, the first one.

Above, the probable second one (if it isn't a related new species).

Feather detail, first find.

Feather detail, second find.

1,715 posted on 08/20/2003 4:13:15 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: Right Wing Professor; DittoJed2
Archaeopteryx was a bird certainly, one of those birds with clawed hands, a bony tail, and teeth.

Under the feathers, Archy looks so much like an ordinary dromaeosaur that sometimes anti-E's claim it's just an ordinary dromaeosaur fossil with feather impressions faked about it.

(This claim too has been thoroughly debunked.)

1,716 posted on 08/20/2003 4:37:07 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: VadeRetro
Yeah, I know it wasn't yours but I knew you had it bookmarked ;)
However, in the mean time I did a websearch and found the link on this feathered dinosaur website.
Just wanted to post it but you beat me to it.

So thanks again for posting it and saving me some work ;)

1,717 posted on 08/20/2003 4:40:08 PM PDT by BMCDA
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To: BMCDA
That's a nice site, too! And it has links to very high resolution pictures of the same fossil.
1,718 posted on 08/20/2003 4:54:34 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: DittoJed2
a dog with fur and a long tail is not a "bit of a cat." They are two different kinds of creatures.

That's an arguable point. Compared to a squid, dogs and cats are nearly identical. Is a grizzly bear "a bit of a black bear"?

1,719 posted on 08/20/2003 4:58:06 PM PDT by Physicist
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To: Physicist
Black bear placemarker.
1,720 posted on 08/20/2003 5:17:14 PM PDT by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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