New Dinosaur Species Found in India

AP ^ | August 13, 2003 | RAMOLA TALWAR BADAM

[nwrep]

New Dinosaur Species Found in India

2 hours, 55 minutes ago

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By RAMOLA TALWAR BADAM, Associated Press Writer

BOMBAY, India - U.S. and Indian scientists said Wednesday they have discovered a new carnivorous dinosaur species in India after finding bones in the western part of the country.

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The new dinosaur species was named Rajasaurus narmadensis, or "Regal reptile from the Narmada," after the Narmada River region where the bones were found.

The dinosaurs were between 25-30 feet long, had a horn above their skulls, were relatively heavy and walked on two legs, scientists said. They preyed on long-necked herbivorous dinosaurs on the Indian subcontinent during the Cretaceous Period at the end of the dinosaur age, 65 million years ago.

"It's fabulous to be able to see this dinosaur which lived as the age of dinosaurs came to a close," said Paul Sereno, a paleontologist at the University of Chicago. "It was a significant predator that was related to species on continental Africa, Madagascar and South America."

Working with Indian scientists, Sereno and paleontologist Jeff Wilson of the University of Michigan reconstructed the dinosaur skull in a project funded partly by the National Geographic (news - web sites) Society.

A model of the assembled skull was presented Wednesday by the American scientists to their counterparts from Punjab University in northern India and the Geological Survey of India during a Bombay news conference.

Scientists said they hope the discovery will help explain the extinction of the dinosaurs and the shifting of the continents — how India separated from Africa, Madagascar, Australia and Antarctica and collided with Asia.

The dinosaur bones were discovered during the past 18 years by Indian scientists Suresh Srivastava of the Geological Survey of India and Ashok Sahni, a paleontologist at Punjab University.

When the bones were examined, "we realized we had a partial skeleton of an undiscovered species," Sereno said.

The scientists said they believe the Rajasaurus roamed the Southern Hemisphere land masses of present-day Madagascar, Africa and South America.

"People don't realize dinosaurs are the only large-bodied animal that lived, evolved and died at a time when all continents were united," Sereno said.

The cause of the dinosaurs' extinction is still debated by scientists. The Rajasaurus discovery may provide crucial clues, Sereno said.

India has seen quite a few paleontological discoveries recently.

In 1997, villagers discovered about 300 fossilized dinosaur eggs in Pisdura, 440 miles northeast of Bombay, that Indian scientists said were laid by four-legged, long-necked vegetarian creatures.

Indian scientists said the dinosaur embryos in the eggs may have suffocated during volcanic eruptions.

[Aric2000]

Michael Behe, and Gould and Eldredge, ALL agree that evolution is the best theory to explain the available evidence, they just believe that evolution had a little help from a designer.

And if you called an ID'r a creationist, they would smack you upside the head.

They claim that they are NOT at all attached to the creationist movement, and yet you claim that they are.

You claim that Behe, Gould, and possibly Eldredge were creationists, they are FAR from it.

They believe that evolution occurred as stated, but with a little help from an "intelligent designer".

Geez, here I am defending IDr's, man, what is this world coming to?

[DittoJed2]

Why do the anti-evos keep harping on a mistake that was corrected within a decade, and is more than 7 decades old? Don't they have any research in the interim?!

Because evolutionists continue harping on a highly flawed and continuously unproven theory. Because discredited evolutionary charts are STILL appearing in textbooks even 40 years after they were debunked (take the embryo charts from the 1870s for example). Because the holy shrine of the geological column which has been preached continuously for DECADES, is garbage and is so full of circular reasoning that one just gets dizzy watching it spin (we know how old this fossil is because of the layer of sediment it is found in. We know how old this sediment is because of the fossil found in it. Oh, nevermind the petrified tree standing straight up through what was supposed to be millions of years of layering. Just BELIEVE THE CHART, BELIEVE THE CHART. YOU'RE GETTING SLEEPIER, BELIEVE THE CHART.)

[DittoJed2]

Aric, you see what you want to see. An intelligent designer is a Creator. The mechanism he chose to create with is what is in dispute, not the evidence of a creator. Behe et al may be theistic evolutionists. I never claimed they weren't. But they aren't Darwinists. They believe in an intelligent creator who created what we see, who put everything into place. And, NO, they would not smack me upside the head for saying so.

[Virginia-American]

Because discredited evolutionary charts are STILL appearing in textbooks even 40 years after they were debunked (take the embryo charts from the 1870s for example).

Be a bit more specific please.

[DittoJed2]

Haeckel's drawings

[Aric2000]

DARWIN was a theistic evolutionist, so PLEASE get a grip!!

Science cannot use god as a causation, because science can ONLY use natural laws to explain natural events and occurences.

You may not like it, it may seem atheistic to you, but to use a causation that is OUTSIDE the laws that you are trying to state is beyond ridiculous. Talk about circular reasoning.

Yes, it's possible because "goddidit", well, sorry, does NOT work in science.

Science uses NATURAL explanations and Laws to explain natural phenomenon, if it used god, it would be religion.

You wish to believe in genesis as literal, please feel free, but excuse science if it cannot use FAITH to come to it's conclusions, it's just a cross that it has to bear.

[Calvin Locke]

Heard a piece on Radio Canada's "As It Happens" last year. Seems a guy found a new species of dinosaur (down under, IIRC) a while back and named it.

Unfortunately, a bug professor discovered that the name had already been used for a beetle or some other insect.

He goes over to the dinosaur dept. and points it out. They tell him you found the mistake, you go contact the original
finder and tell him to pick another name.

Bug guy gets news the dino finder guy died. Goes back to the dino dept. "Well, you found the mistake, you pick a
name." "How about 'Big Dead Lizard' (in Latin, of course, also one half of an inter department joke, the other half
being about bugs.)?" "Fine with us." And so it was, corrected and renamed in all the science documents.

However, the original dino finder was still alive, and didn't have the same sense of humor as the bug guy's fellow profs across campus.

Very unfortunate for the dino finder. Nothing he can do about it now. Anyway, new dino finds are rare, maybe once
in a hunter's life time, if the hunter is lucky.

With beetles, it's like uh, okay, you messed up. You get to name the next beetle...

[DittoJed2]

Scientists say that nothing exploded, or that matter always existed. Scientists say that the impersonal came from the personal. Scientists have never observed evolution occurring (other than the variations which naturally take place within a kind of species- NOTHING on a major scale). Scientists believe their theory on FAITH.

[f.Christian]

Trollism --- dwarfs ... autism (( rainboy ))!

The basis of all dysfunctional - WARPED things requires a strong misplaced focus and a censorship - denial system ... social autism --- cults !

These are very antithetical to democracy ... freedom --- science too !

Projecting anything esoteric should not be in science or politics !

Conforming reality to a false belief system and forbidding scrutiny should not become law or public policy ... esp national science !

This is the formula - mo of cults - ideology ... esp evolution --- which should not become an established forced cult like it is practiced now !

It is a travesty --- a total fallacy to conform physical sciences to only a subjective human frame of reference ... evolution has become a form of tribalism --- canibalism --- mindnaping --- slavery !

Troll overlords on the march alert ... armbands --- torches too !

Sack and plunder !

[f.Christian]

It' s a travesty --- a total fallacy to conform physical sciences to only a subjective * animal * - * material * frame of reference ... evolution has become a form of tribalism --- canibalism --- mindnaping --- slavery --- REPRESSION - TYRANNY !

[Virginia-American]

Because the holy shrine of the geological column which has been preached continuously for DECADES, is garbage and is so full of circular reasoning that one just gets dizzy watching it spin

Absurd. It's been 'preached' (actually 'known' is more precise) not for decades but for centuries. longer than evolution.

From Talk origins discussion of the geological column

My comments in bold

The principle of faunal succession in the geologic record was established by direct observation as early as 1799 by William Smith. By the 1830's Adam Sedgwick and Roderick Murchison established a correlation between the various types of fossils and the rock formations in the British Isles. It was found that certain fossils, now referred to as index fossils, were restricted to a narrow zone of strata. Studies done on the European continent soon demonstrated the universal validity of index fossils

decades before Darwin.

Note that evolution has nothing to do with how the index fossils are used to date strata! Any kind of object clearly restricted to a specific point in the geologic column would do just fine. If green dice were found only in the middle Ordovician strata, they would make excellent "index fossils."

Evolution should be seen as an explanation of the faunal succession....

Radiological methods give absolute ages, and these agree in ordering with those that had been previously established by creationists (ie pre-darwinian) scientists. (There is no way to know how many of these early geologists would have become evolutionists if they had been exposed to the theory).

It continues:

Creationists, on the other hand, must explain to us how sediment and rock laid down in a mere year can yield such fantastic, orderly differences in radiometric ages....

...And so on. Please read the cited site and explain where the logic is circular

[Aric2000]

No....

Scientists understand that the Theory of evolution is the Best scientific theory to explain the available scientific evidence.

The theory fits the evidence, and there is NO OTHER theory that does, until there is, scientists will STILL UNDERSTAND, that the theory of evolution is the best theory to explain the available scientific evidence.

No faith involved, it is the BEST theory to explain the available evidence, you don't like it, then come up with a SCIENTIFIC theory that competes with evolution that CAN explain the available scientific evidence and STILL make sense, and STILL be scientific.

Please, I would LOVE to see you attempt it.

[Virginia-American]

Haeckel's drawings

In which textbooks?

[ALS]

http://www.textbookleague.org/55awbio.htm

[f.Christian]

Good News For The Day

‘I am among you as one who serves’ (Luke 22:27)

"Albert Schweitzer was a man with a strong intellect, and great musical gifts. One day, he was reflecting on his fortunate life in Europe. He thought of his considerable mental facility, his many privileges in education and the arts. He asked himself: "Why do I have so much, while others do not?" he could only think of one answer: "I have been given these gifts in order to serve my fellow man." Then and there he vowed and ideal of service. Service became the law of his life. He went to Africa as a missionary doctor."

"Here is how he describes one moment in his years of service: "The operation is finished in the dimly lighted dormitory. I watch for the sick man to wake. Scarcely has he recovered consciousness, when he stares about him and exclaims again, and again, 'I have no more pain; there is no more pain.' His hand feels for mine, and will not let it go. Then I begin to tell him, and others there, that it is the Lord Jesus that has told the doctor to come here."

"The African sun is ... shining --- through the coffee bushes into the dark shed."

"But we, black and white, sit side by side, and feel that we know by experience, the meaning of the words, 'you are all brethren.' Would that my generous friends in Europe would come out here with me and live through one such hour!"

My comments ...

I am personally offended and insulted that you would teach we were descended from animals ... evolution is the most bigotted and racist abortion --- spiritual - intellectual rape - murder - tyranny !

[Virginia-American]

I am personally offended and insulted that you would teach we were descended from animals

I don't care. If your feelings are so important, go talk to a 'touchy-feely' type, like a D*m*cr*t.

[Virginia-American]

[from the link A Lying Socialist posted]

Here, read the "Critical Thinking" exercise that they offer on page 241: "There is a saying, 'Phylogeny recapitulates ontogeny.' Look up each of the words in the dictionary. Restate the saying in your own words. Explain how this saying relates to evolution."

The fact that Addison-Wesley's writers have interchanged ontogeny and phylogeny might not deserve much attention if it were just an isolated mistake.

Don't ask me to defend the quality of HS-level texts, they're mostly horrible. However, in this case, it sounds like they're using Haeckel as an exercise, not as "dogma". So what's the problem?

[Virginia-American]

meant for you.

[Junior]

No one has "attacked" him. We have asked him for evidence to support his position and in some cases shown where his position is outdated or untenable. These do not constitute attacks. Our comparison of him to medved is based upon his contention that man co-existed with dinosaurs -- a contention for which there is no direct physical evidence and for which the circumstantial evidence is highly suspect. The observation that he lacks medved's flair was simply that. Old Ted was an interesting character. He was quite wrong, but he was always entertaining, and I, for one, really miss him.

[f.Christian]

If your feelings are so important

You don't have any ... over evolved !