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Schism, and soon (Episcopal Church Crisis)
The American Partisan ^ | 11 August, 2003 | J. King

Posted on 08/11/2003 11:58:06 AM PDT by The Right Stuff

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To: The Right Stuff
Schism? I think all these forces wouls love to chase all the ``conservatives'' out of all these institutions.
21 posted on 08/11/2003 12:56:50 PM PDT by nickcarraway (a a)
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To: The Right Stuff
The Reverend Carol Flanagan, when asked if she believed that the Bible was the incarnate Word of God, replied that she “wasn’t sure”.

Maybe she/he should be sure before guiding their congragation.

22 posted on 08/11/2003 12:57:48 PM PDT by nickcarraway (a a)
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To: Miss Marple
Pinging Miss Marple to an interesting article. Looks like someone else gets it as far as those in the denomination taking the valuable real estate from individual congregations as they split because they elect to adhere to Higher Principle. I am not an Episcopalian, but have worshipped with them at different periods of my life and have had some wonderful experiences there. Adequate words to describe my feelings about this whole situation fail me.

From the last paragraph of the article:

"Devout Episcopalians must not rollover for this outrage against the Church. Some have argued against schism - after all, most Episcopal real estate is owned by the denomination, not individual congregations. Those who split must leave, and very valuable real estate is thus left in the hands of the apostate lavender lobby which has infiltrated and poisoned it. It is a fallacious argument. Are we eager to embrace Mammon, or be like the Apostles - who left everything behind when Jesus said to follow him. It is time. It is, indeed, a new day. ***"


23 posted on 08/11/2003 1:13:10 PM PDT by TEXOKIE
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To: The Right Stuff; scripter
"The troubling aspects of the Robinson case unfolded rapidly. Bishop Robinson, in 1986, abandoned his wife and two young daughters in order to move in with his homosexual “partner”, Mark Andrew. Surely, such pure selfishness and egotism should be enough to disqualify anyone from posing as a humble man of God. Hubris, however, appears to be Bishop Robinson’s strong point.... Far from being ashamed and penitent, Bishop Robinson appears defiant and boastful... Further selfish action from an exceedingly self-indulgent man...."


What Homosexuals Say About Homosexuals - Is This Gay Behavior Sick?

""Let´s look at gay behavior as defined by two gays, Marshall Kirk and Hunter Madsen Ph.D., authors of After the Ball: How America will Conquer its Fear and Hatred of Gays in the 90´s (1989).

In Chapter Six, they outline “ten categories of misbehavior,” drawn from their own experiences, wide reading and thousands of hours of conversation with hundreds of other gays.

•  The authors say “a surprisingly high percentage” of pathological liars and con men are gay. This results from a natural habit of self-concealment, and leads to a stubborn self-deception about one´s own gayness and its implications.

•  They say gays tend to reject all forms of morality and value judgments. Gay morality boils down to “If it feels good, I´ll do it!” If a gay feels like seducing a trusted friend´s lover, he´ll do it, justifying it as an act of “sexual freedom” and the friend be damned.

•  They say gays suffer from a “narcissistic” personality disorder and they give this clinical description: “pathological self absorption, a need for constant attention and admiration, lack of empathy or concern for others, quickly bored, shallow, interested in fads, seductive, overemphasis on appearance, superficially charming, promiscuous, exploitative, preoccupied with remaining youthful, relationships alternate between over idealization and devaluation.”

•  The authors say gays tend to deny reality in various ways: wishful thinking, paranoia, illogic, emotionalism and embracing crackpot ideas.




Choice4Truth

24 posted on 08/11/2003 1:28:10 PM PDT by EdReform (Support Free Republic - Become a Monthly Donor)
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Comment #25 Removed by Moderator

To: The Right Stuff
"The pro-Robinson prelates seemed to exhibit a vast moral and theological confusion which makes one wonder why they picked their chosen career."


It's true that they are morally and thologically confused. Why did they pick their chosen career? It's part of a well planned and very well funded campaign being waged by the homosexual community to infiltrate the Church and undermine and destroy it's moral authority


An excerpt from: The Overhauling of Straight America:

"While public opinion is one primary source of mainstream values, religious authority is the other. When conservative churches condemn gays, there are only two things we can do to confound the homophobia of true believers. First, we can use talk to muddy the moral waters. This means publicizing support for gays by more moderate churches, raising theological objections of our own about conservative interpretations of biblical teachings, and exposing hatred and inconsistency. Second, we can undermine the moral authority of homophobic churches by portraying them as antiquated backwaters, badly out of step with the times and with the latest findings of psychology. Against the mighty pull of institutional Religion one must set the mightier draw of Science and Public Opinion (the shield and word of that accursed “secular humanism”). Such an unholy alliance has worked well against churches before, on such topics as divorce and abortion. With enough open talk about the prevalence and acceptability of homosexuality, that alliance can work again here..."


26 posted on 08/11/2003 1:47:45 PM PDT by EdReform (Support Free Republic - Become a Monthly Donor)
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To: The Right Stuff
Other Episcopalian Bishops, like Bishop Shaw, asserted that they weren’t that concerned with Scripture because they were being led by “the Holy Spirit.” A Spirit may indeed be leading them, but I highly doubt that it is holy.

Galatians 1:8  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

1 Timothy 4:1  Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

27 posted on 08/11/2003 1:57:44 PM PDT by asformeandformyhouse
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To: TEXOKIE
There exists another very strong reason against schism. Dioceses control priest's pensions. Parish priests stand as Congregation's leaders. Without a leader, without church property, individuals (like me earlier) will leave. but rarely whole congregations.
28 posted on 08/11/2003 2:01:48 PM PDT by born yesterday
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To: The Right Stuff
The fall of the Epsicopalian Church in actuality happened decades ago. For more on the attempted liberal takeover of American Protestanism, click here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/962051/posts
29 posted on 08/11/2003 2:36:31 PM PDT by Zack Nguyen
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To: RonF
For more on the liberal takeover of American Protestanism, click here:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/962051/posts

30 posted on 08/11/2003 2:38:44 PM PDT by Zack Nguyen
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To: TEXOKIE
Yes, indeed. I would note that while many will paint the members who are facing leaving as being materialistic, I have yet to see the liberals and homosexuals who joined as having that failing in spades.

How come these people aren't pressuring poor denominations? Why aren't they infiltrating denominations which control their property as individual congregations?

I think we all know the answer. The liberals and gays want the real estate and the endowments. They don't want that little old Assembly of God storefront church who rents space from a landlord.

31 posted on 08/11/2003 2:39:13 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: xzins
not sure, good point!
32 posted on 08/11/2003 7:18:14 PM PDT by The Right Stuff
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To: brbethke
good point!
33 posted on 08/11/2003 7:19:06 PM PDT by The Right Stuff
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To: The Right Stuff
This is for those FALSE bishops, priests and pastors who say that the gay agenda is from the Holy Spirit:

A reading from the holy gospel according to John.

Jesus said to his disciples:

“I still have many things to say to you,
but you cannot bear them now.
When the Spirit of truth comes,
he will guide you into all the truth;
for he will not speak on his own,
but will speak whatever he hears,
and he will declare to you the things that are to come.
He will glorify me,
because he will take what is mine and declare it to you.
All that the Father has is mine.
For this reason I said
that he will take what is mine and declare it to you.”

The Holy Spirit takes the things of Christ--the Word of the Father--and declare it to Christ's people. He does NOT take things CONTRARY to the Word of God and let them blow around the world--wreaking havoc!!!! THAT is the work of quite another kind of spirit entirely!!!!

Some of the most dangerous people in Christian history said that they were guided by the Spirit, and claimed a "new revelation" entirely contrary to scripture. An example was Thomas Muenster, a contemporary of Luther who ignited the Peasants' War, burning villages and slaughtering Catholic and Lutheran alike, supposedly to bring on the second coming of Christ. Muenster--who had a lot in common with the islamist fanatics of our own day--met a violent and inglorious end, and got a lot of people killed in the process.

Now we have these bishops who mock the apostolic office they bear, claiming to have the Spriit , but obviously bearing the worldly spirit of the politically correct!!!
34 posted on 08/11/2003 7:41:52 PM PDT by Honorary Serb
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To: The Right Stuff
Proving his apostasy further, Bishop Robinson’s first act as Bishop was to repair - not to New Hampshire - but to New York where he spoke at a U.N. panel which denounced Catholicism for not embracing deviancy the way the Anglicans have.

Did "Selfish Gene" Robinson REALLY speak at a UN panel? Which one? If thsi is true, it is very interesting. William E. Swing, the Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of California, and a supporter of Robinson, is the founding spirit behind the "United Religions Initiative" (URI), and serves on its Global Council as President and Founding Trustee. The URI is a UN-based organization whose goal is to produce a "New World Religion" for the "globalist order"!!!!

It is quite easy to document that the liberal, apostate wing of the Episcopal church--the same ones who are active supporters of the gay cabal--are KNEE-DEEP in the anti-Christian New World Religion!!! If Robinson himeself is involved in URI, and even uses its platform to try to undermine Christian denominations that oppose both the gay agenda and URI, that would "close the circle"!!!!

35 posted on 08/11/2003 7:59:52 PM PDT by Honorary Serb
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To: The Right Stuff
SPOTREP!!
36 posted on 08/11/2003 8:16:43 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: .cnI redruM
As the churches split into smaller and smaller groups, they will argue smaller and less signifigent points to the bloody hilt.

Very true. My parents are members of one of the small conservative splinter Anglican churches that broke with Canterbury after the ordination of women and the overhaul of the 1928 prayer book. Their journey over the past twenty-five years has been a sad tale of schism begetting schism, with ever-smaller and ever-older parishes that disagree over minor points of liturgy and splinter again.

I am coming to think my spiritual home is in the Anglican Use movement within the Roman Catholic Church. Whatever their problems with gay infiltrators, at least they formally stand for unity and steadfastness in opposing heresy.

-ccm

37 posted on 08/11/2003 10:00:49 PM PDT by ccmay
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To: EdReform
•  The authors say gays tend to deny reality in various ways: wishful thinking, paranoia, illogic, emotionalism and embracing crackpot ideas.

This describes perfectly most of the Bush-hating, self-proclaimed "real conservatives" on FR.

38 posted on 08/11/2003 10:03:57 PM PDT by Timesink
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To: .cnI redruM
As the churches split into smaller and smaller groups, they will argue smaller and less signifigent points to the bloody hilt.

Very true. My parents are members of one of the small conservative splinter Anglican churches that broke with Canterbury after the ordination of women and the overhaul of the 1928 prayer book. Their journey over the past twenty-five years has been a sad tale of schism begetting schism, with ever-smaller and ever-older parishes that disagree over minor points of liturgy and splinter again. I enjoy visiting and hearing the beloved cadences of 1928, but they seem totally lacking in the spirit of Christian unity.

There are at least four traditionalist Anglican church organizations in this country, and a number of unaffiliated churches like my parents'. If they could come together with traditionalists left behind in the Episcopal church, as well as the overseas Anglican provinces that are considering breaking with the American Episcopal Church, perhaps there would be hope for a traditionalist province that parallelled the main church in this country and yet remained in communion with Canterbury.

Otherwise, the only option for those who value both unity and orthodoxy will be reconciliation with Rome and adoption of the Anglican Use liturgy.

-ccm

39 posted on 08/11/2003 10:23:24 PM PDT by ccmay
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To: ccmay
whoops, double post with some modifications!

-ccm

40 posted on 08/11/2003 10:25:07 PM PDT by ccmay
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