Ten Commandments Judge: 'If I Go to Jail, I Go to Jail'

And a Mississippi-based pro-family group, the American Family Association, has launched an online petition encouraging Congress to enact legislation that would remove federal jurisdiction in cases involving the Pledge of Allegiance, the national motto -- "In God We Trust" -- and public display of the Ten Commandments. According to that website, such an act would require only a simple majority in both houses of Congress and the president's signature to become law.

August 7: Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore Explains Why He Feels The Ten Commandments Belong in the Alabama Courthouse

Friday, August 08, 2003

This is a partial transcript from Hannity & Colmes, August, 7 2003 that has been edited for clarity. Click here to order a transcript of the entire show.

ALAN COLMES, CO-HOST : There's a battle going on in an Alabama courthouse over the Ten Commandments (search). Chief Justice Roy Moore placed a monument to the Ten Commandments in the Alabama judiciary building more than two years ago and he has been fighting a legal battle to keep them there ever since. Earlier this week, a federal judge ordered the chief justice to remove the monument by August 20. But is the fight over? Chief Justice Roy Moore joins us now. Sir, thank you very much for being here with us live in New York.

CHIEF JUSTICE ROY MOORE, ALABAMA SUPREME COURT: Thank you.

COLMES: Are you going to remove it by August 20?

MOORE: Well, I am going to make an announcement on what I plan to do on next Thursday.

COLMES: You won't say it here on HANNITY & COLMES?

MOORE: No, I think I better not.

COLMES: Do you know what you're going to do?

MOORE: I know what I'm going to do.

SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST : I know what he's going to do. I'm guessing.

COLMES: Would you take this all the way to the Supreme Court? Is this...

MOORE: Well, I am going to take this to the Supreme Court, but that's not...the question is whether I'll remove the monument. The petition, first of all, doesn't have to be filed until the end of September.

COLMES: Why are you doing this? And why did you...when you put it there, it was all reported that it was in the dead of night, that you know, and why must there be a two-ton monument and why in the dead of night?

MOORE: Well, that's a very good question. It's one I appreciate you asking. It's because the press have reported it was the dead of night; it was scheduled to go in at 6:00, after the work day so people wouldn't be injured by moving a two and a half ton granite monument into a building, and we couldn't get it in because the monument company didn't deliver it in until 9:30.

But the press keeps on this dead of night simply to confuse the issue in this case, which is can the state acknowledge God.

COLMES: All right, why are you doing this, and why is it so important for you to have the state acknowledge God? Because, I mean, if you certainly have firms beliefs, as I know you do, you can do it anywhere you want, you can do it at home, you have a church. Why is it so important for you to make this statement on state property?

MOORE: Because as chief justice of Alabama, I'm sworn to uphold the Alabama Constitution. I'm the chief administrative officer of the justice system. And our justice system is established invoking the favor and guidance of almighty God. It says, 'we the people of the state of Alabama, in order to establish justice, invoking the favor and guidance of almighty God.' When the federal judge says I cannot acknowledge God, I can't do my job.

COLMES: So you say acknowledging God is part of your job.

MOORE: Absolutely.

COLMES: Does that mean that if you're an atheist or someone who doesn't believe in God, you cannot be a judge in Alabama?

MOORE: There is no requirement to acknowledge God to be a state official. But when you take an oath to swear, to uphold that constitution and you don't acknowledge God, you judge for yourself.

HANNITY: Hey, Judge, thank you for being with us. I think you're taking a great courageous stand. I admire what you're doing. I'm assuming I know where you're going. Just...just go down my path here. I'm assuming you're not removing those Ten Commandments. I'm assuming that. Let's assume I'm right. What will happen next?

MOORE: Well, if that were the case, then on August 20, the judge would shortly thereafter set a hearing for contempt, I presume.

HANNITY: Could you be...could you end up in jail for this?

MOORE: Well, that's up to the judge, of course. He's indicated that he would assess fines against the state, which I think is a terrible way to enforce your will on the state in violation of the Tenth Amendment.

HANNITY: Let me ask this, I really firmly believe that there is a movement afoot right now in this country to remove all reference to God in the public square, that I don't think they want 'in God we trust' on U.S. coins, 'one nation under God' in the pledge. If they could go back and rewrite Thomas Jefferson's declaration, they'd have 'endowed by their creator' taken out. You have pointed out historically that these are our roots, this is our foundation, this is where our law...

MOORE: It's not only that. It's our organic law. Under the United States...today, if you look up the Declaration of Independence (search), it's listed as the organic law of our country. It's there we find that God gave us our rights, our life, our liberty, and the government's role is to secure those rights for us.

HANNITY: Well, Mr. Chief Justice, I agree with that. Do you think the courts above you will agree with you?

MOORE: I think the courts throughout the history of this country have agreed that God is the foundation of our law. For example, in 1961, in Miguelian v. Smerla, it was said the institutions of our society are founded upon the belief that there is an authority higher than the authority of the state, that there is a moral law which the state is powerless to alter, and that the individual possesses rights conferred by the creator which the government must protect.

HANNITY: I wouldn't want to go up against you in court.

All right, so this is going to go forward here. This...why is this a case so important? If you were to capitulate here, what would happen? What do you think the net effect would be if you got rid of the Ten Commandments?

MOORE: Well, I think the net effect of capitulation on an issue like this is to allow the federal courts to continue to come into the state and take away the states' rights. You see, it's right of the state to establish justice. It's the Tenth Amendment (search). The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution nor prohibited by it to the states are reserved to the states.

HANNITY: And what's so important here is that in the constitution in Alabama, this is very straightforward.

MOORE: That's right. Almighty God is acknowledged, and there's a reason for that basis of a justice system. It gives people the freedom of conscience and it also gives people the freedom to be prosecuted not according to what they think but according to what they do.

HANNITY: What is the reaction to you? I mean, there are some people that are against you, obviously. But the overwhelming reaction to you is pretty positive, isn't it, in the state of Alabama?

MOORE: Yes, it is. Yes, it is. But this is a matter of constitutional law, it's the matter of the First Amendment, it's a matter of the Tenth Amendment, and people need to know what this issue is. It's about the acknowledgment of God. Can we do that?

HANNITY: All right, but now that you've been told to remove it, I'm assuming you are not going to remove it. What is the next court level you get to? Because if you try to take it to the Supreme Court, you know and I know how difficult it is for them to accept a case.

MOORE: Right. I mean, it's up to the Supreme Court. But there is a good reason for them to...this case, a very good reason. It's the fact that no judge has said the Alabama Constitution is unconstitutional, and I'm sworn to uphold it.

HANNITY: Absolutely. You're just doing your job.

MOORE: This judge says simply that we can't acknowledge God.

COLMES: Chief Justice, one of the things reported about you, and tell me if this is accurate, is that at a certain point in your career, you invited ministers in to offer prayers during jury organizational sessions.

MOORE: That's true.

COLMES: But were there people of all religions, were they Islamic (search), members of the Islamic faith, were there Jews (search), were there other...

MOORE: No. But I had no objection to inviting a Jewish minister in...or a Jewish rabbi. The fact is, in Adaval County, this has been going on continuously before I took office and after I took...it's going on today. They traditionally have the churches from the area send a pastor in to open the jury session with prayer.

COLMES: Did you invite people from other faiths beside Protestant (search)? Were their Catholics (search)? Were there...

MOORE: We've invited people from around. I couldn't tell you all the people we've invited over the period of eight years while I was on the bench.

COLMES: Is there a higher law than the Constitution of the United States? Do you believe the Constitution is subservient to a higher law to which we must all answer, legally in this case?

MOORE: We're sworn to uphold the constitution. That constitution is based upon the laws of nature and of nature's God, according to James Madison, Federalist 43, January 23, 1788, when he said the first question can be answered at once by recurring to the absolute necessity of the case, to the great principle of self-preservation, because the transcendent law of nature and of nature's God.

COLMES: Is there ever a conflict between what it says in the U.S. Constitution and what that higher law says?

MOORE: I find no conflict.

COLMES: No conflict whatsoever?

MOORE: I find no conflict, no.

HANNITY: Mr. Chief Justice, I will never debate you on the law, ever, you have encyclopedic knowledge. Best of luck to you. Thank you so much for being with us. Appreciate it.

MOORE: My pleasure.

COLMES: Appreciate it, thank you, Mr. Chief Justice, thank you for being here.

If laws and rights are not based in a large part on religion - which results in an unquestionable legitimacy, all laws and rights would flow from only the opinion of the most powerful.

Read what the Founding Fathers said about this subject:

James Madison (Architect of the U.S. Constitution & Co-Author of the Federalist Papers)

"We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We have staked the future of all of our political institutions upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

(also From his notes)

"Cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the cross of Christ."

"Religion [is] the basis and Foundation of Government."

Patrick Henry (...as for me, give me liberty or give me death!)

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased a the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"

Benjamin Rush (signer...Declaration of Independence)

"By removing the Bible from schools we would be wasting so much time and money in punishing criminals and so little pains to prevent crime. Take the Bible out of our schools and there would be an explosion in crime."

"I have alternately been called an Aristocrat and a Democrat. I am neither. I am a Christocrat."

George Washington

"It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible."

Daniel Webster

"Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and to the Republic for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster, and what has happened once in 6000 years, may not happen again. Hold on to the Constitution, for if the American Constitution should fail, there will be anarchy throughout the world."

"If we abide by the principles taught in the Bible, our country will go on prospering and to prosper; but if we and our posterity neglect its instruction and authority, no man can tell how sudden a catastrophe may ovenvhelm us and bury all our glory in profound obscurity."

"Finally, let us not forget the religious character of our origin. Our fathers were brought hither by their high veneration for the Christian religion. They journeyed by its light, and labored in its hope. They sought to incorporate its principles with the elements of their society, and to diffuse its influence through all their institutions, civil, political, or literary.

"If religious books are not widely circulated among the masses in this country, I do not know what is going to become of us as a nation. If truth be not diffused, error will be; If God and His Word are not known and received, the devil and his works will gain the ascendancy, If the evangelical volume does not reach every hamlet, the pages of a corrupt and licentious literature will; If the power of the Gospel is not felt throughout the length and breadth of the land, anarchy and misrule, degradation and misery, corruption and darkness will reign without mitigation or end."

In 1832, Noah Webster published his History of the United States, in which he wrote:

"The brief exposition of the constitution of the United States, will unfold to young persons the principles of republican government; and it is the sincere desire of the writer that our citizens should early understand that the genuine source of correct republican principles is the Bible, particularly the New Testament or the Christian religion.

"The religion which has introduced civil liberty is the religion of Christ and His apostles, which enjoins humility, piety, and benevolence; which acknowledges in every person a brother, or a sister, and a citizen with equal rights. This is genuine Christianity, and to this we owe our free Constitutions of Government.

"The moral principles and precepts contained in the Scriptures ought to form the basis of all of our civil constitutions and laws....All the miseries and evils which men suffer from vice, crime, ambition, injustice, oppression, slavery and war, proceed from their despising or neglecting the precepts contained in the Bible.

"When you become entitled to exercise the right of voting for public officers, let it be impressed on your mind that God commands you to choose for rulers just men who will rule in the fear of God. The preservation of a republican government depends on the faithful discharge of this duty;

"If the citizens neglect their duty and place unprincipled men in office, the government will soon be corrupted; laws will be made not for the public good so much as for the selfish or local purposes;

"Corrupt or incompetent men will be appointed to execute the laws; the public revenues will be squandered on unworthy men; and the rights of the citizens will be violated or disregarded.

"If a republican government fails to secure public prosperity and happiness, it must be because the citizens neglect the divine commands, and elect bad men to make and administer the laws."

"Corruption of morals is rapid enough in any country without a bounty from government. And...the Chief Magistrate of the United States should be the last man to accelerate its progress."

Laws and rights based on the Christian religion results in an unquestionable legitimacy...to believers.

If we 'cleaned house' of ALL government laws, statutes, including the U.S. Constitution of anything based on Judeo-Christian morals and values, what rights would we the people have left?

At the end of the day - most of ours laws are based on a MORAL vrs. IMMORAL code that is rooted in religious beliefs. If laws and rights are not based in a large part on religion - which results in an unquestionable legitimacy, all laws and rights would flow from only the opinion of the most powerful.

Van Jenerette
www.jenerette.com

�

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