Judge Bork, baptized at 76

U.S. News & World Report ^ | 7/22/03 | Paul Bedard With David LaGesse

[nickcarraway]

It may be a little late to start for most, but Robert Bork, the former Supreme Court nominee who has written books decrying the decline of Western culture, has just been baptized. Rev. C. John McCloskey, who represents the conservative and activist Opus Dei arm of the Roman Catholic Church and oversaw the baptism, said, "I can confirm that he was received in the Catholic Church." Bork, a scholar with the conservative American Enterprise Institute, was raised a Protestant and had called himself a "generic Protestant." He was known more for his conservative legal views, which some Democrats used to shoot down his court nomination during the Reagan administration.

In a brief interview, he said that years of "conversations and reading" led him to baptism at McCloskey's small Catholic Information Center chapel on K Street near the White House. "There's more to talk about than you can put in a brief story." He called himself a regular Catholic who attends Sunday mass, not an Opus Dei member.

He said talks with and recommendations from the priest, as well as attending church with his wife, Mary Ellen Bork, a former nun, helped pave the way to the ceremony.

Bork's sponsors were Kate O'Beirne, a conservative media star, and John O'Sullivan, head of UPI.

Lots of other prominent Catholics were there, such as columnist and speechwriter Peggy Noonan, herself a convert.

McCloskey has made several other high-level conversions of conservatives, bringing into the Catholic Church conservative columnist Robert Novak and Republican Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas.

The best part of getting baptized at 76, said Bork: "If you get baptized at my age, all of your sins are forgiven. And that's very helpful."

According to Archdiocese of Washington Communications Director Susan Gibbs, Msgr. William Awalt, the longtime pastor of the Borks, baptized the judge, confirmed him and gave him First Communion. Father McCloskey celebrated the Mass, along with Msgr. Peter Vaghi, pastor of St. Patrick's.

[BibChr]

Certainly wrong about the Roman Catholic church. As has been often and long demonstrated.

Dan

[Berean]

Where does it say in scripture that baptism is merely an act of obedience? I try to be open minded, but please don't use the example of the thief on the cross, whose salvation was obtained as was Abraham's, by faith, under the old Covenant.
Why does every conversion following the resurrection involve immediate water baptism?
In First Corinthians 1: 10 – 16 the apostle Paul expressed his frustration at the divisions
among people according to who they were baptized by. He did not discount baptism here. Context matters
Also, I never said there was no such thing as baptism of the Spirit, only that every recorded instance of conversion included reference to baptism in water.
You know, settling accounts with your brother, if there is enmity between you, is commanded and is also an act of obedience. Why then does this command not appear next to every conversion?
I’m not trying to be argumentative, and I honestly believe that He IS a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him. God’s thought are not our thoughts, His ways are not our ways. We are cautioned against leaning on our own understanding if it contradicts the Word of God. 2 Peter 1:3 says “seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence”.

If a person believes in the God of the Bible, doesn’t it make sense that we would turn to His Word to learn how to be reconciled to Him?

The plan of salvation as I understand it is:
Hear (or learn), believe, repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins. Without the remission of sins you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
As Jesus said, “not My will but Thine be done”. I’m trying.

[Thorondir]

Sure. All of human history is wrong, you read all about it in your frothy I hate the Catholic Church Manual. I'm finished with you. The bible says not to even speck with those who spread false teachings, not to even let them in your homes.

Adios. (shaking the dust from my sandals)

[MudPuppy]

ping / bump / and Mark for later

[mdmathis6]

The thief obtained his salvation by that blood that was pouring out of Jesus Christ, right next to him!!!!! The thief had transgressed the old covenant and had no sacrifice to cover his sin, so Christ's blood covered it and cleansed it.

So did Abraham obtain Salvation...who had not the Mosaic Law and there fore wasn't even covered by the old covenant...but he did have his faith in God "which was imputed to him righteousness", for what did Christ say of Abraham..."Even Abraham saw my day and was Glad!". How could Abraham see Christ's day? Christ said "Before Abraham...I AM!"

There was never any real Salvation under the old covenant; per Hebrews the old covenant sacrifices covered sin, until the perfect sacrifice that cleanses sin was made. It was always about Jesus Christ and faith in him that saved man. Abraham saw Christ's day the day his hand was stayed from sacrificing his own son, and a lamb was provided in his place. The secret was out, Abraham must have begun to grasp God's plan for his offspring, for Christ said,"he saw my day and was glad!"
Christ was the fullfillment of the old law and the establishment of the new, his poured out blood was the Salvation of all under the old and new covenants, Christ's church, while established TEMPORALLY in the first century, has existed transtemporally from the first moment of the sin of man-kind, when animals were killed to provide coverings for Adam and Eve.

As for no baptism of the spirit recorded in scripture...check your post..you did say it. Acts 10:42 thru48 records an incident where as the word was being preached to a group of gentiles...the Holy Spirit fell on the group, BEFORE THEY WERE BAPTIZED. Are you prepared to say that if a group of soldiers happened upon the scene and slaughtered the group before they were water baptized that these men would not be saved?

Peter stated "Can anyone forbid water that these should not be Baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have. AND HE COMMANDED THEM TO BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD" One assumes the group OBEYED. Look at Acts 11:16"...(Peter quoting Jesus)...."John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit" Wasn't Christ making a distinction between the symbolism of the water baptism with the inner dynamic of the baptism of the Holy Spirit in operation in a person's life? In the end, it is Christ's blood that cleanses us and it is the Holy Spirit or God's presence in a man's life that is the true mark of his salvation. Christ was baptized and received the empowering of the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove. We follow Christ's example in being baptized in his name. The profession of faith in true ernestness and conviction in Jesus is what saves us ultimately, this being followed by God's entry into a person's life. Water baptism was the next step in obedience. Believe and be Baptized, to follow that exhortation is a step of faith based OBEDIENCE...is it not?

[mdmathis6]

The thief obtained his salvation by that blood that was pouring out of Jesus Christ, right next to him!!!!! The thief had transgressed the old covenant and had no sacrifice to cover his sin, so Christ's blood covered it and cleansed it.

So did Abraham obtain Salvation...who had not the Mosaic Law and there fore wasn't even covered by the old covenant...but he did have his faith in God "which was imputed to him righteousness", for what did Christ say of Abraham..."Even Abraham saw my day and was Glad!". How could Abraham see Christ's day? Christ said "Before Abraham...I AM!"

There was never any real Salvation under the old covenant; per Hebrews the old covenant sacrifices covered sin, until the perfect sacrifice that cleanses sin was made. It was always about Jesus Christ and faith in him that saved man. Abraham saw Christ's day the day his hand was stayed from sacrificing his own son, and a lamb was provided in his place. The secret was out, Abraham must have begun to grasp God's plan for his offspring, for Christ said,"he saw my day and was glad!"
Christ was the fullfillment of the old law and the establishment of the new, his poured out blood was the Salvation of all under the old and new covenants, Christ's church, while established TEMPORALLY in the first century, has existed transtemporally from the first moment of the sin of man-kind, when animals were killed to provide coverings for Adam and Eve.

As for no baptism of the spirit recorded in scripture...check your post..you did say it. Acts 10:42 thru48 records an incident where as the word was being preached to a group of gentiles...the Holy Spirit fell on the group, BEFORE THEY WERE BAPTIZED. Are you prepared to say that if a group of soldiers happened upon the scene and slaughtered the group before they were water baptized that these men would not be saved?

Peter stated "Can anyone forbid water that these should not be Baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have. AND HE COMMANDED THEM TO BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD" One assumes the group OBEYED. Look at Acts 11:16"...(Peter quoting Jesus)...."John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit" Wasn't Christ making a distinction between the symbolism of the water baptism with the inner dynamic of the baptism of the Holy Spirit in operation in a person's life? In the end, it is Christ's blood that cleanses us and it is the Holy Spirit or God's presence in a man's life that is the true mark of his salvation. Christ was baptized and received the empowering of the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove. We follow Christ's example in being baptized in his name. The profession of faith in true ernestness and conviction in Jesus is what saves us ultimately, this being followed by God's entry into a person's life. Water baptism was the next step in obedience. Believe and be Baptized, to follow that exhortation is a step of faith based OBEDIENCE...is it not?

[It's me]

You're still on my "ignore" list, Campion; I broke my rule again, but only briefly.

HA! That's only because you Bib, can not stand up to Campion's questions.

[mdmathis6]

I agree with you about Bork. I read his book Slouching towards Gomorrah in which he wrote that only a rejuvenation in religious life in our country could provide sufficient force to turn back the tide of evil in our nation. To me, it seems that Bork is putting his soul where his rhetoric is. Bork is a smart, deep thinking person and I'm sure he approached the Catholic faith and baptism with "true intent and simple child like faith".

Make God make better Christians of us all...Catholics and we Protestants too!

After all HE IS RISEN....HE IS RISEN INDEED!

[Thorondir]

Amen, brother.

[Jhoffa_]

I am a Proud Protestant.. But I am always glad to see someone saved.

76 and not baptized, goodness!

All the Best wishes Judge Bork! Amen Sir!

[Berean]

I’m new at this posting stuff. I sure hope this doesn’t post twice, since it is kind of long.

Are you telling me that there was no covenant between Abraham and God?

The Bible definitely speaks of grace through faith. It never says faith only. You must also confess Christ. You must also repent of your sins. You stop there. Jesus, Peter and Paul do not.

Mark 16:16
“He who has BELIEVED AND IS BAPTISED shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned”. Um, THIS IS JESUS TALKING!!!

Rom 6:3-7
Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also bein the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7 for he who has died is freed from sin.

1 Peter 3:20-22
20 who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you-- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience--through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, after angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.

Acts 19:1-7
It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2 He said to them, " Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?" And they said to him, "No, we have not even heard whether there is a Holy Spirit." 3 And he said, "Into what then were you baptized?" And they said, " Into John's baptism." 4 Paul said, " John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. 7 There were in all about twelve men.

So they already believed and yet they still had to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

I don't claim to know all the reasons that God does what He does or why He chose to attach baptism to salvation every single time. I only know that He did.
Also, Jesus had the power to forgive sins: you and I do not. We are still commanded to be baptized for the remission of our sins.

Jesus said:

Matt 7:22-23
Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Luke 6:46
Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say.

As to whether the people that were killed by soldiers before being baptized or whether the Aborigine who never heard the Gospel would spend eternity in hell, I don't know. I certainly hope not. That is up to God. We can only go by what He has told us in His word. Those scenarios apply neither to you, to me or to the overwhelming majority of people.

You appear to love the Lord. So do I. You are firm in your convictions. So am I. But I will try my best to obey Him in all things before I will ever dismiss the Word of God based on the extrabiblical reasoning of man. Whether you or I like it or not, the Bible says what it says. Scripture does not contradict scripture. As my friend Herb the hippy used to say: “Dig it or Don’t”.

[Salvation]

What a wonderful story.

Everyone is always invited to "come home" to the Catholic Church.

[Salvation]

I know Hannsen is a Catholic.

[Salvation]

I wasn't aware (or had forgotten) about Morris. Great!

[PaulZe]

out of historical context scripture quotes without any hermineutical comprehension is a sign of lazy scripture reading on your part. If you want to believe the world is flat be my guest( Gen chapter one). God gives me the intelligence to know that four gospels, for example were written to different audiences in the early church. The Bible came to be written in an historical context not in a cloud somewhere. To understand the power and the truth of God's Word one needs to understand the historical context of the inspired author and audience for which it was originally intended. They are after all handing on to us what they themselves first received. After all you and I are believers because it was witnessed to us....in the NT and by real flesh and blood people who live their faith ( Be careful how you live you may be the only Bible some people ever read)

[Rummyfan]

Wow, first Laura Ingraham and now Robert Bork.

Welcome!

[PFKEY]

The best part of getting baptized at 76, said Bork: "If you get baptized at my age, all of your sins are forgiven. And that's very helpful."

What an uttely clueless statement!

[PFKEY]

Great points but it makes too much sense. The truly wise know that you get to pick and choose which verses you want to follow. Surely you don't mean that you must take the Bible as a whole.

[PFKEY]

I don't follow the manmade tradition of sola Scriptura

How would you characterize the traditions of Rome?

I don't understand how you can both condem and justify traditions using only one verse in the New Testament.

2Thes.2
[15] Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Is there another NT verse that is used for this argument?

[PFKEY]

It's what most Protestant churches ostensibly rely upon in testing the accuracy of church dogma.

What else claims to be the insired word of God? (I trust we both believe that the Bible is what it claims)

If this standard is insufficient then what standard do we have that is greater?