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To: mdmathis6
Where does it say in scripture that baptism is merely an act of obedience? I try to be open minded, but please don't use the example of the thief on the cross, whose salvation was obtained as was Abraham's, by faith, under the old Covenant.
Why does every conversion following the resurrection involve immediate water baptism?
In First Corinthians 1: 10 – 16 the apostle Paul expressed his frustration at the divisions
among people according to who they were baptized by. He did not discount baptism here. Context matters
Also, I never said there was no such thing as baptism of the Spirit, only that every recorded instance of conversion included reference to baptism in water.
You know, settling accounts with your brother, if there is enmity between you, is commanded and is also an act of obedience. Why then does this command not appear next to every conversion?
I’m not trying to be argumentative, and I honestly believe that He IS a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him. God’s thought are not our thoughts, His ways are not our ways. We are cautioned against leaning on our own understanding if it contradicts the Word of God. 2 Peter 1:3 says “seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence”.

If a person believes in the God of the Bible, doesn’t it make sense that we would turn to His Word to learn how to be reconciled to Him?

The plan of salvation as I understand it is:
Hear (or learn), believe, repent and be baptized for the remission of your sins. Without the remission of sins you cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
As Jesus said, “not My will but Thine be done”. I’m trying.
282 posted on 07/25/2003 11:58:55 AM PDT by Berean
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To: Berean
The thief obtained his salvation by that blood that was pouring out of Jesus Christ, right next to him!!!!! The thief had transgressed the old covenant and had no sacrifice to cover his sin, so Christ's blood covered it and cleansed it.

So did Abraham obtain Salvation...who had not the Mosaic Law and there fore wasn't even covered by the old covenant...but he did have his faith in God "which was imputed to him righteousness", for what did Christ say of Abraham..."Even Abraham saw my day and was Glad!". How could Abraham see Christ's day? Christ said "Before Abraham...I AM!"

There was never any real Salvation under the old covenant; per Hebrews the old covenant sacrifices covered sin, until the perfect sacrifice that cleanses sin was made. It was always about Jesus Christ and faith in him that saved man. Abraham saw Christ's day the day his hand was stayed from sacrificing his own son, and a lamb was provided in his place. The secret was out, Abraham must have begun to grasp God's plan for his offspring, for Christ said,"he saw my day and was glad!"
Christ was the fullfillment of the old law and the establishment of the new, his poured out blood was the Salvation of all under the old and new covenants, Christ's church, while established TEMPORALLY in the first century, has existed transtemporally from the first moment of the sin of man-kind, when animals were killed to provide coverings for Adam and Eve.

As for no baptism of the spirit recorded in scripture...check your post..you did say it. Acts 10:42 thru48 records an incident where as the word was being preached to a group of gentiles...the Holy Spirit fell on the group, BEFORE THEY WERE BAPTIZED. Are you prepared to say that if a group of soldiers happened upon the scene and slaughtered the group before they were water baptized that these men would not be saved?

Peter stated "Can anyone forbid water that these should not be Baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have. AND HE COMMANDED THEM TO BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD" One assumes the group OBEYED. Look at Acts 11:16"...(Peter quoting Jesus)...."John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit" Wasn't Christ making a distinction between the symbolism of the water baptism with the inner dynamic of the baptism of the Holy Spirit in operation in a person's life? In the end, it is Christ's blood that cleanses us and it is the Holy Spirit or God's presence in a man's life that is the true mark of his salvation. Christ was baptized and received the empowering of the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove. We follow Christ's example in being baptized in his name. The profession of faith in true ernestness and conviction in Jesus is what saves us ultimately, this being followed by God's entry into a person's life. Water baptism was the next step in obedience. Believe and be Baptized, to follow that exhortation is a step of faith based OBEDIENCE...is it not?
285 posted on 07/25/2003 2:33:43 PM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: Berean
The thief obtained his salvation by that blood that was pouring out of Jesus Christ, right next to him!!!!! The thief had transgressed the old covenant and had no sacrifice to cover his sin, so Christ's blood covered it and cleansed it.

So did Abraham obtain Salvation...who had not the Mosaic Law and there fore wasn't even covered by the old covenant...but he did have his faith in God "which was imputed to him righteousness", for what did Christ say of Abraham..."Even Abraham saw my day and was Glad!". How could Abraham see Christ's day? Christ said "Before Abraham...I AM!"

There was never any real Salvation under the old covenant; per Hebrews the old covenant sacrifices covered sin, until the perfect sacrifice that cleanses sin was made. It was always about Jesus Christ and faith in him that saved man. Abraham saw Christ's day the day his hand was stayed from sacrificing his own son, and a lamb was provided in his place. The secret was out, Abraham must have begun to grasp God's plan for his offspring, for Christ said,"he saw my day and was glad!"
Christ was the fullfillment of the old law and the establishment of the new, his poured out blood was the Salvation of all under the old and new covenants, Christ's church, while established TEMPORALLY in the first century, has existed transtemporally from the first moment of the sin of man-kind, when animals were killed to provide coverings for Adam and Eve.

As for no baptism of the spirit recorded in scripture...check your post..you did say it. Acts 10:42 thru48 records an incident where as the word was being preached to a group of gentiles...the Holy Spirit fell on the group, BEFORE THEY WERE BAPTIZED. Are you prepared to say that if a group of soldiers happened upon the scene and slaughtered the group before they were water baptized that these men would not be saved?

Peter stated "Can anyone forbid water that these should not be Baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have. AND HE COMMANDED THEM TO BE BAPTIZED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD" One assumes the group OBEYED. Look at Acts 11:16"...(Peter quoting Jesus)...."John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit" Wasn't Christ making a distinction between the symbolism of the water baptism with the inner dynamic of the baptism of the Holy Spirit in operation in a person's life? In the end, it is Christ's blood that cleanses us and it is the Holy Spirit or God's presence in a man's life that is the true mark of his salvation. Christ was baptized and received the empowering of the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove. We follow Christ's example in being baptized in his name. The profession of faith in true ernestness and conviction in Jesus is what saves us ultimately, this being followed by God's entry into a person's life. Water baptism was the next step in obedience. Believe and be Baptized, to follow that exhortation is a step of faith based OBEDIENCE...is it not?
286 posted on 07/25/2003 2:45:06 PM PDT by mdmathis6
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To: Berean
Well said, brother/sister.
304 posted on 07/25/2003 9:18:46 PM PDT by PFKEY
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