Judge Bork, baptized at 76

U.S. News & World Report ^ | 7/22/03 | Paul Bedard With David LaGesse

[nickcarraway]

It may be a little late to start for most, but Robert Bork, the former Supreme Court nominee who has written books decrying the decline of Western culture, has just been baptized. Rev. C. John McCloskey, who represents the conservative and activist Opus Dei arm of the Roman Catholic Church and oversaw the baptism, said, "I can confirm that he was received in the Catholic Church." Bork, a scholar with the conservative American Enterprise Institute, was raised a Protestant and had called himself a "generic Protestant." He was known more for his conservative legal views, which some Democrats used to shoot down his court nomination during the Reagan administration.

In a brief interview, he said that years of "conversations and reading" led him to baptism at McCloskey's small Catholic Information Center chapel on K Street near the White House. "There's more to talk about than you can put in a brief story." He called himself a regular Catholic who attends Sunday mass, not an Opus Dei member.

He said talks with and recommendations from the priest, as well as attending church with his wife, Mary Ellen Bork, a former nun, helped pave the way to the ceremony.

Bork's sponsors were Kate O'Beirne, a conservative media star, and John O'Sullivan, head of UPI.

Lots of other prominent Catholics were there, such as columnist and speechwriter Peggy Noonan, herself a convert.

McCloskey has made several other high-level conversions of conservatives, bringing into the Catholic Church conservative columnist Robert Novak and Republican Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas.

The best part of getting baptized at 76, said Bork: "If you get baptized at my age, all of your sins are forgiven. And that's very helpful."

According to Archdiocese of Washington Communications Director Susan Gibbs, Msgr. William Awalt, the longtime pastor of the Borks, baptized the judge, confirmed him and gave him First Communion. Father McCloskey celebrated the Mass, along with Msgr. Peter Vaghi, pastor of St. Patrick's.

[Campion]

That's hardly a ritual. That's real. That's substantive.

So is baptism. God didn't set up any fraudulent mummeries.

[narses]

All baptisms of water in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are considered valid by the Catholic Church whether administered by the Catholics or not.

Almost right. The matter (water) form (the words said as the water is used by the person pouring the water, and the INTENT are all needed. This is why Mormon baptism is not accepted as valid by the Church, as their INTENT is not to do what the Church would do.

[Fred Mertz]

I wasn't aware of that. Thanks.

[Campion]

Not sure who Scott Hahn is...you'll need to elucidate.

Here's your introduction.

But if you want to paint with a broad brush the supposed fallacy of an idea by the failings of one man

I wouldn't call it a failing, more like a succeeding.

we can start with the failings of dozens of priests controlled by a certain theocratic bureaucracy

"Controlled"? Did they have the brain implants and everything? Has this been on the Art Bell show yet? LOL.

The guys you're talking about, unfortunately, weren't "controlled" by Rome. In fact, they just plain weren't controlled.

[narses]

So you're still an enabler of the damnation of men's souls through dependence on manmade traditions and ritual.

Your personal attacks are made worse by their obvious dishonesty. Here are the Words of Our Lord:

"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, , All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen." - Matthew 28:18-20

"Jesus answered and said unto him,, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." - John 3:3-5

And what does the Good Book say of people who say what you say?

"And all the people that heard [him], and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John. But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him." - Luke 7:29-30

[Cicero]

Nowhere in the Bible does it say anything about sola scriptura.

[DannyTN]

'Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.'--Acts 22:16

Someone already went through Acts 8 with you. So I just wanted to come back to this verse. You emphasise the baptism. I would emphasise and wash away your sins, calling on His name. And I would emphasize it that way because there are so many verses that do just that, they emphasize the calling on His name, and leave baptism out all together when talking about salvation.

John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. ...36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 12:44 Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. 45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. 46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 11:13 ...and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter; 14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

Romans 11:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

1 Corinthians 1:21 - For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[Palladin]

Dear Judge Bork,

Welcome to the fold! We need as many like you as we can get. May you enjoy many wonderful years as a baptized member of the One True Church!

[RnMomof7]

Our Bible Presbyterian church baptizes infants as a sign of the covenant . The Pastor explains that it is a symbol and that it does not save.

It would be interesting to know what branch of the presbyterian tree that Pastor is. Presbyterians have a covenant theology so a teen baptism make no sense from that perspective, Most non Calvinist and reformed Baptists teach a believers baptism .also a sign sacrament (dying and being born again)

[narses]

Our Bible Presbyterian church baptizes infants as a sign of the covenant.

He gets that part right.

The Pastor explains that it is a symbol and that it does not save.

What does he think the "covenant" is then?

[BibChr]

Cite that verse in Paul, please.

[BibChr]

I love Bork. I can't look at one of those monsters who Borked him -- Leahy, Kennedy, Spectre -- without thinking what shame they've earned.

But as a Christian I can't find any joy in this. Water never yet did anything spiritual for anyone; only faith in the Lord Jesus Christ does (John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8-10, etc. ad inf.). The man gets up and praises the ritual -- no sign of the grace of God there.

I will pray for his conversion and salvation.

Dan

[BibChr]

That's an interesting response, again very ignorant about me and my history of posting. But the real problem is that it's a dodge, not an answer.

I really wish you'd answer the question. Had you asked me, I would have.

Dan

[DannyTN]

baptism is the appeal, the verse says that very clearly.

Baptism is not the only form that appeals to the Father can take. And the thief is a prime illustration of that. I just posted a half dozen verses to you talking about salvation and they either don't mention baptism or it's performed after what the verses says is necessary for salvation.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.

Jesus did command us to baptize and I don't dispute that. He also told us to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. Well He commanded a tremendous amount of things. Is it your contention that failure to do all that Jesus commanded voids salvation or that salvation is contingent or not conferred until after all things He commanded are done? Of course not, so why are you twisting this verse to make it something it's not. It's a command to baptize, but it doesn't make water baptism necessary for salvation. Jesus said many times that belief in Him was what was necessary for salvation and that all that believed in Him would have eternal life.

Water Baptism is important, but it is not critical to salvation. Only faith that generates an appeal is necessary.

[RnMomof7]

The covenant is the visible body of Christ both saved and unsaved. The covenant sign of Baptism replaces the OT covenant sign of circumcision.

Just as that sign did not save (remember circumcise your heart?) Baptism will not save it marks membership in the visible church

[american colleen]

It's about obedience!

[narses]

The covenant is the visible body of Christ both saved and unsaved.

What part of Our Lord's Body is NOT saved? The Covenant, the Promise, is Our Lord telling us:

"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, , All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen." - Matthew 28:18-20

"Jesus answered and said unto him,, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." - John 3:3-5

[BibChr]

Irrelevant. What a waste, rising to defend an indefensible god that cannot save, rather than taking the living God revealed in Scripture alone at His inerrant word. What a waste.

Dan

[my_pointy_head_is_sharp]

You're really full of it! And full of yourself, you pompous ass.

[Campion]

You emphasise the baptism. I would emphasise and wash away your sins,

"Wash away your sins" placed next to "baptism" pretty clearly emphasizes that baptism is the act accomplishing the washing. It's more striking in the Greek, because the word translated "be baptized" can also be translated as "bathe" or "wash".

Don't set up some artificial opposition between one clause of Scripture and another. God's word is a unified whole, not a collection of bits and pieces.

there are so many verses that do just that, they emphasize the calling on His name, and leave baptism out all together when talking about salvation.

In context, John 3 is not one of those passages, though. It's very much about baptism. Baptism is mentioned before, baptism is mentioned afterwards, and Jesus specifically demands that one be "born again of water and the Holy Spirit". I don't know what he's talking about, if it's not baptism, especially given the baptismal context before and afterwards.

However, a broader question is why you seem to think there's some opposition between faith and baptism. There isn't. One leads to the other.

Can someone who is faithful be saved without being baptized in water? According to the Catholic Church, absolutely. The technical term for this is "baptism of desire," or "baptism of blood" (in the case of someone who is martyred for the faith before being baptized in water).

But that doesn't change the fact that baptism in water is the normative -- ordinary or usual -- way to confer the grace of justification. Why? Because God said so, in John 3, among other places.

Arguing that faith is more important than baptism is a lot like saying that love is more important than marriage. (If the people who call baptism "impotent ritual" were consistent, they would call marriage "impotent ritual" also.) No, love leads to marriage, marriage seals love in a sacred covenant. Faith leads to baptism, baptism seals faith in a sacred covenant.