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To: presidio9
Care to give us scientific evidence to support your belief?

Um, hello. The entire scientific community has reached consensus on this point. I don't think I'd even bother debating with a patzer that doesn't get that point. These threads pooh-poohing global warming are just ignorant. Smart conservatives are already moving on to market-based solutions to the rather obvious science. So, nah, I'm not feeding the trolls. I just thought I'd buzz your thread once and remind you of a little thing called "reality" and also make sure such threads contain at least one dissenting voice so that no one can say *all* conservatives are scientifically illerate.
8 posted on 07/07/2003 9:40:10 AM PDT by FreeTheHostages
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To: FreeTheHostages
Um, hello, yourself. What you are saying is simply not true. Your "little thing called 'reality'" is an unsubstantiated theory. The fact that you are so convinced otherwise is a sure sign that the liberals have successfully brainwashed you on this subject.


God I hate it when ignorant people take a patronizing tone!
10 posted on 07/07/2003 9:45:32 AM PDT by presidio9 (RUN AL, RUN!!!)
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To: FreeTheHostages
The entire scientific community has reached consensus on this point.

What the "entire scientific community" has NOT reached consensus on is the cause. To say that man can have that dramatic an effect on a natural global process would be arrogant and perhaps even blasphemous.

11 posted on 07/07/2003 9:45:56 AM PDT by brewcrew
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To: FreeTheHostages
Joe Bastardi of accuweather doesn't buy it.
12 posted on 07/07/2003 9:47:50 AM PDT by jwalburg (Line dry only)
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To: FreeTheHostages
Are you talking about the same bunch of "scientists" who signed that global warming paper done a few year ago? IIRC, of the 2500 or so signatories, only about 6 were actual environmental scientists (all liberal) and the rest were noted "scientists" such as a hotel manager, grade school teachers, and generally liberal envirowackos.
15 posted on 07/07/2003 10:24:55 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: FreeTheHostages
"Um, hello. The entire scientific community has reached consensus on this point."

Consensus doesn't mean they are right.

For example, The entire medical community reached a consensus in the 60's that fat was bad. For over 30 years we have follwed the medical communities advice and now have epidemic levels of obesity, heart disease, cancer and diabetes. However one man, Dr. Atkins has been teaching people how to lose weight by doing the opposite of the medical community's recommendations. Eat fat and cut carbs. And the number of people who have tried it and say it works are now in the millions. And the medical community is finally starting to study his methods and acknowledge that Atkins gets results. If the medical community can be that wrong, can't the scientific community?

There are too many variables in the ecosystem to successfully model with any certainty. You need a record of successful predictions to have any confidence in the model. The scientific community is way too premature in issuing warnings off their models without sufficient confirmations. The scientific community is also incented to issue warnings to get additional funding for more studies. Therefore all warnings should be viewed with a high degree of scepticism.

24 posted on 07/07/2003 10:48:42 AM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: FreeTheHostages
The entire scientific community has reached consensus on this point.

I disagree. You can go right now and search google and find experts with opposing opinions.

29 posted on 07/07/2003 10:55:08 AM PDT by Principled
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To: FreeTheHostages
http://www.globalwarming.org/
31 posted on 07/07/2003 11:02:55 AM PDT by Principled
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To: FreeTheHostages
http://www.co2science.org/
32 posted on 07/07/2003 11:03:44 AM PDT by Principled
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To: FreeTheHostages
http://www.stanford.edu/~moore/WarmingContents.html
33 posted on 07/07/2003 11:04:27 AM PDT by Principled
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To: FreeTheHostages
That was just a "hurry up and find a few links" search. Spend some time and you'll easily see that the consensus you assert is only consensus to those who desire it to be so.
34 posted on 07/07/2003 11:05:24 AM PDT by Principled
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To: FreeTheHostages
http://www.cei.org/gencon/019,03512.cfm
36 posted on 07/07/2003 11:09:23 AM PDT by Principled
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To: FreeTheHostages
Um, hello. The entire scientific community has reached consensus on this point. I don't think I'd even bother debating with a patzer that doesn't get that point.

Whoop! Whoop! Whoop! Warning! Disruptor alert...Here's how your "consensus" is manufactured. BTW I generally discount anyone who starts a sentence with "I don't even bother to debate........" as someone who is in possession of no facts.

45 posted on 07/07/2003 1:14:09 PM PDT by Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
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To: FreeTheHostages
Science is not a consensus process. People who accept global warming because of a claimed "consensus" are just ignorant, and have a mindset more akin to liberals. When global government comes, and freedom dies, it will happen by "consensus".
50 posted on 07/07/2003 1:33:07 PM PDT by Iconoclast2
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To: FreeTheHostages
"The entire scientific community has reached consensus on this point."

These are some of the same "scientists" who also reached a concsus about 20 years ago, that the earth was headed for another ice age, also caused by the interference of mankind.

The govt funding ran out on that theory, so they just reversed the area of research, and conned the taxpayers into funding more vague, non-conclusive, factless research. They are no closer to being right now, than they were then.

75 posted on 07/07/2003 2:26:33 PM PDT by wcbtinman (Only the first one is expensive, all the rest are free.)
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To: FreeTheHostages
Um, hello. The entire scientific community has reached consensus on this point.

Um, hello. 19,200 scientists disagree.

82 posted on 07/07/2003 2:41:53 PM PDT by Monitor
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To: FreeTheHostages
ever hear of the petition project?
you can start here too
If your really curious you can study Paleoclimatology.
97 posted on 07/07/2003 4:01:35 PM PDT by D Rider
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To: FreeTheHostages
The entire scientific community has reached consensus on this point.

It is my opinion that the observed increases in the surface temperature are almost entirely due to changes in the sun.

Most of the scientists who accept a correlation between anthropogenic carbon and increased surface temperature do so on the basis of computer models that they did not write and do not understand. To anyone but the authors, the programs are simply black boxes.

I myself have written a computer model of a planetary atmosphere, and have extensive experience in the Monte Carlo simulation of much simpler physical systems. On the basis of that experience, and on the basis of my review of the results of several models that are quoted in the literature, I can tell you that I would not trust the accuracy of any such model at the level of detail claimed.

Furthermore, bias can creep into simulation results in ways that are difficult to guard against. I'll give you an example. One thing I'm working on right now is a simulation package for subatomic particle detectors called calorimeters, which measure the energies of incident particles. The code has all the physics correct, I'm pretty sure, but there are parameters that need to be tuned. We tune the parameters by knowing the "right answers" ahead of time, and twiddling the parameter values so that the output "looks right". In this case, we didn't have any real data to compare to, so we used the output of another simulation package. We tuned the parameters until the output looked right, but didn't realize for some time that the other package didn't handle a certain physics process that we included in ours. As a result, had to choose somewhat silly parameters to get "the right answer" (which it turned out was the wrong answer for our package). The lesson is that with any such system, it can be very difficult to adjust the parameters in an unbiased way, even if you get all the science right.

101 posted on 07/07/2003 5:40:33 PM PDT by Physicist
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To: FreeTheHostages
Um, hello. The entire scientific community has reached consensus on this point.

It would be a frightening development if the entire scientific community reached consensus on anything as that would mean they had stop searching for answers to the virtually infinite questions that arise during investigation.

What needs to be avoided is a major political shift based on short-term changes in the climate.

If we rid the world of carbon-based lifeforms and allowed the planet to return to its former lifeless self then who would measure the gain?

104 posted on 07/07/2003 6:16:50 PM PDT by Old Professer
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To: FreeTheHostages
The entire scientific community has reached consensus on this point.

Not true.

File this under: Things that Dan Rather will never tell you. Go HERE and look for the Oregon Petition. Far more scientists have flatly rejected the man-made global warming theory than have accepted it. There is not even agreement that temps have increased over the last 50 years and some evidence that they have in fact fallen.

143 posted on 07/08/2003 12:29:24 PM PDT by Ditto (No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons wer)
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To: FreeTheHostages
The entire scientific community has reached consensus on this point.

Not true.

File this under: Things that Dan Rather will never tell you. Go HERE and look for the Oregon Petition. Far more scientists have flatly rejected the man-made global warming theory than have accepted it. There is not even agreement that temps have increased over the last 50 years and some evidence that they have in fact fallen.

144 posted on 07/08/2003 12:37:02 PM PDT by Ditto ( No trees were killed in sending this message, but billions of electrons were inconvenienced.)
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