Mother defends breastfeeding baby while driving (followup on idiot)

WKYC-TV/DT Cleveland ^ | 6.17.03 | Vic Gideon

[mhking]

Mother defends breastfeeding baby while driving

Reported by Vic Gideon
POSTED: Monday, June 16, 2003 5:06:15 PM
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 17, 2003 12:20:52 PM

PORTAGE COUNTY -- A mother traveling from Detroit to Pittsburgh got into trouble in Portage County while trying to drive and breastfeed her baby at the same time.

Twenty-nine-year-old Catherine Donkers had fed the baby before she left Detroit but said her seven-month-old daughter was hungry again.

"I knew I was doing nothing wrong when I was breastfeeding her," Donkers said.

Donkers doesn't consider her actions excessively dangerous.

"I think there are lots of things we do when we put ourselves at risk, just by the very fact that I'm in a car and there's lots of car accidents every single day," she said. "I think it would be reasonable to say even that's a danger."

A truck driver apparently saw it as a danger and called the highway patrol. But Donkers wouldn't pull over for police until she got to a tollbooth.

"I've directed her to, that when she doesn't feel safe, she goes to a public place," said her husband, Brad Barnhill.

At the tollbooth, Donkers didn't give the trooper a driver's license. She instead pulled out an affidavit as identification and got cited for not having a license.

The couple also claims she did nothing wrong, saying Michigan law has an exemption to its child restraint law for nursing mothers.

They claim that since the turnpike is an interstate, drivers can follow the laws of their home state. But the highway patrol says that as long as the stop occurred in Ohio, they have to abide by Ohio laws.

The couple has done extensive research on the law and believes in a strict adherence to them. Donkers is facing child endangering and child seat violations among other charges. Her and her husband say they plan to fight all charges and will file a counter suit.

[Eaker]

I suppose it is legal to do a lot of stupid things. It is probably legal for me to clean my ear with my pocket knife, but is it prudent?

People like this guy and his wife are their own lemon, when life hands them lemons.

They go out of their way to research the laws so they can figure out how to break them. They are a bane to society and are raising a little scofflaw.

Darwin usually catches up with people like this. Hope when that happens it is only them that pay the price.

Finally, simply because our Constitution grants one the right to handle rattlesnakes does not make it okay to bring said snake into anothers life. His religion is his business, but it is obviously bravo sierra.

Eaker

[mylife]

I think Free Republic has shorted-out with Democratic Underground! Bizarre isn't it?? What about the Children?? wont some one PULeeeeeeezzzee think of the Childen Given your mocking tone, I take you're both pro-choice?

I had a mocking tone in as much as I mock that kids have the say so over adults. That is not to say that adults dont place kids in harms way. But what will you do?? give kids soveriegnty over adults? Feelings over logic?

Im just amazed how many folks want laws and judgement when nothing happened..just a dumb mommy who nursed her baby while moving, as opposed to stationary.

Passing judgement on potential harm strikes me as foolish.

[annyokie]

OK, I'm going to take a big chance here and try to explain this. All I ask is that you first look at the law, and then comment. If you cannot find the law, then please contact me privately and I would be pleased to show you how.

Pennsylvania law (where I lived before she married me) says that one has to have a social security number in order to make application. I have none, neither does she. We have a religious objection to the inventorying of human flesh. Please don't flame me for my beliefs. I am entitled to them, Sherbert v Verner, and Wisconsin v Yoder. See also the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993, codified in Title 42 United States Code.

So we cannot get a driver's license or even photo ID here in Pennsylvania. I use a photo ID issued by my church and we also have identification that we made, essentially an Affidavit of Positive Identification, that is signed by us and two witnesses before a notary and sealed, then laminated. I have no problems using this for banking or air travel.

I could address this matter in more detail, but instead, first see 42 USC 405(c)(2)(B)(i)(I) to see that only ALIENS applying for permanent residency are required to get a number in order to work in the United States, it does not say citizens. See also Railroad Retirement Bd v Alton RR Co to see that Congress has no authority to compel citizens to participate in National Socialism.

Also, reference US v Butler (overturned on other grounds) that the taxes people pay to participate in a benefits program must be put into the general fund, and cannot be set aside in some other kind of trust fund, but that is specific to Socialist Insecurity.

So how do I work? Look at 26 USC 6041(a) and (c) and show me a requirement for an SSAN. Now look at 26 CFR 301.6109-1(c) and look at the "foreign persons" in (b) that are referenced.

The motions that I generally file contend that it is this "resident alien" that is being regulated, not me and people like me. There is a an incredible difference in the law between citizens and resident aliens, see Vattel's Law of Nations. Also, look at Fong Tue Ying v United States, which upheld the Chinese Exclusion Acts. Recall that in the West of the last century, the railroads were built primarily by Chinese immigrants. When their work was done, Congress passed legislation requiring resident aliens working in the United States to be registered. When they lost their jobs, they were deported without any modicum of due process of law - no hearing, just a summary deportation. Look at the dissenting opinions by Field and Fuller in this case to see how egregious they thought this was.

And so it began, over 110 years ago.

guess that without an SSAN, she and I cannot be the "resident" aliens provided for in the laws. The next question is: Since only "resident" aliens have to get a d/l, and "resident" aliens have to have an SSAN, and I do not have an SSAN, then I cannot be a "resident" alien for the purposes of this statute.

Please remember that your failure to be informed of this does not make me a wacko.


Man, I thought I had heard everything. This is the absolute DUMBEST argument I have ever heard! Do you pay taxes? Where did you get your car? Do you have a line of credit? Jeez Louise! I am dumfounded!

[justshe]

Very well stated, Eaker.

"People like this guy and his wife are their own lemon, when life hands them lemons."
-- snip --
"Finally, simply because our Constitution grants one the right to handle rattlesnakes does not make it okay to bring said snake into anothers life. His religion is his business, but it is obviously bravo sierra."

[Robert_Paulson2]

Yes... the Knott family owned a big fruit farm in orange county... has an amusement park named after it, and a food conglomerate fortune.

They were or are still billionaires, just like the Smuckers, Delmonte and the Hunts tomato clan.

http://www.itsforthekids.com/CaraKnott.htm
"Cara Knott was a young lady that was pulled over by a veteran CHP officer in San Diego, forced to drive down a secluded road and was murdered by the CHP officer.
Cara’s father Sam worked diligently for victim’s rights and passed away recently near the spot where Cara was murdered and a small park had been constructed to honor the victims of violence.
The founder of It's For The Kids did not live here at the time so do not know all the details. There were 2 trials, the first one ended up in a hung jury. The current San Diego DA, Paul Pfingst, prosecuted during the second trial and got a conviction. "

---

http://www.elcajonboulevard.com/High%20Profile.htm (halfway down)
Cara Knott
Dec. 27, 1986: Cara Knott, 20, did not return home.
Dec. 28, 1986: Her body was found strangled beneath the Old Hwy. 395 bridge near the Mercy Road off-ramp east of Highway 15 in Rancho Penasquitos.
Jan. 15, 1987: Phone tips led to the arrest of California Highway Patrolman Craig Peyer, 36, who was accused of pulling Knott over and killing her while on duty.
June 1988: Peyer was convicted of Knott's killing and was sentenced to 25 years to life.
Nov. 30, 2000: Knott's father, Sam Knott, 63, died of a heart attack at the San Diego Crime Victims Oak Garden which was built and dedicated in Cara Knott's memory near the Mercy St. Bridge. The bridge was re-named Cara Knott Memorial Bridge. After Cara's murder, Sam became a crusader for victim's rights.

---

http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:A1sH-ANDEWAJ:straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/mnt/html/women/issues22.html+%22craig+peyer%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
snip---In another case, a California Highway Patrol officer named Craig Peyer was convicted in 1988 of murdering Cara Knott, 20, after pulling her over at a dark freeway exit.
At his trial, two dozen women testified they had also been pulled over by Peyer near the same spot for long, rambling conversations that left many uncomfortable and scared.

---

More background on one of the investigators.
64 year old Bonner County sheriff moved to Hope, Idaho, in 1993 to retire after 33 years with San Diego Police Department. When former Sheriff Chip Roos announced he wouldn't seek re-election last year, local officers encouraged Jarvis to run for sheriff. When Jarvis left San Diego in 1991, he had moved up to a senior captain's rank, said dept spokesman Bill Robinson, who worked with him for 26 years. "He was a highly regarded officer," Robinson said.
Jarvis began his career as a motorcycle patrolman working in the city's traffic division. He quickly moved up the ranks and began working as a sex crimes and robbery detective, his former co-workers said. Soon, he was promoted to lieutenant overseeing homicide investigations, Robinson said. In 1986, Jarvis oversaw investigation of high profile murder case in which veteran California Highway Patrol officer Craig Peyer killed a college student he stopped on the freeway, Robinson said.

---

further related information of interest.

there is now a park, dedicated to this woman, by highway fifteen, near the area where she was killed by the officer.
it impacted the laws... in that you are NOT required to stop asap... but as soon as YOU believe you are safe...
This happened in California. Since then, because of multiple high-profile police incidents, which resulted in convictions for murder and rape... other states have followed suit, howbeit not all of them...

[Eaker]

Passing judgement on potential harm strikes me as foolish.

So why are there building codes? Why are there DWI laws? Why is there a Bureau of Weights and Measures? Why are states passing anti-smoking laws. Why are there attractive nuisance laws?

So if someone drives drunk and doesn't have an accident then it is okay?

I could go on all night, but hopefully you get the picture.

Eaker

[mhking]

They go out of their way to research the laws so they can figure out how to break them.

Exactly my point from square one. But that point appears to have been forgotten.

[myprecious]

Jsut remember: shiny side out!

I recommend the Non-stick Reynolds foil. Keeps those pesky songs from getting stuck in your head.

[Eaker]

But that point appears to have been forgotten.

I had to read through 400+ posts before I felt comfortable posting. You are indeed correct that you stated this first. I am only reaffirming the point as RgnadKzin never addressed it.

Eaker

[Catspaw]

If he's a "resident alien," can he be deported?

[myprecious]

If he's a "resident alien," can he be deported?

On the next shuttle to Alpha Centori!

[Sinner6]

Or is this no longer a FreeRepublic?

Yes it it and may I say welcome to FR.

[scholar]

I'm trying to imagine HOW she got that 7 month old baby out of one of those 5 point restraint systems driving down an interstate.

I signed on late and you beat me to the punch. How does one move a baby from any place--restrained or not--and then go through the motions required to breast feed a baby with even one hand on the wheel? Even if this were possible she was endangering that baby which could easily be crushed between her and the steering wheel should there be an accident. She is nuttier than a fruitcake--and a liar as well.

[mylife]

This is a slippery slope!

I let my kid skateboard! I let him ride bikes! I have takin him mountiain climbing in the snow at 6000 ft. OH god We've shot guns! Crap!! I gave him a knife!! Man I Suk!! My kid is doomed!

[Catspaw]

She was breatfeeding her baby.

She was breastfeeding her baby while going down an interstate (speed limit 70) with the baby's head and body in close proximity to the steering wheel. Unless she's got a pair of long ones--and to keep the baby's head angled upwards (it prevents choking and vomiting)--one of her arms was under the baby's head to place the baby's head in the right position to suckle. I doubt if you've breastfed, but the baby will either alternate or switch breasts during the feeding. That means at some point during the 50 minute feeding (although the baby gets sufficient milk in the first 10 minutes or so; after that, Mom's a pacifier) the baby would've switched positions from left breast to right breast (or vice versa). This keeps the breasts (one or both) from being engorged with milk. Now there's a possibility that the driver's licenseless Mom had the ability to switch the baby from breast to breast while keeping one hand on the wheel, but it's a tricky move: detach the baby's mouth from the nipple (usually done by placing a finger from the opposite hand between the baby's mouth and nipple from the side to break the suction), lift the baby's head, sit the baby up, move the baby from the crook of one arm to the other, turn the baby facing into the breast and put the baby into the right position to suckle and make sure the baby starts to suckle, usually done by placing the nipple in or near the baby's mouth.

The next time you go on an interstate or other highway, take along a 7 month old sized doll and try to duplicate what she was doing.

[mylife]

LOL!! Its just such a non story, the only story here is how much EMOTION folks are willing to use as a basis for LAW

[beachn4fun]

SH*T I want in on this scam

[annyokie]

No sh*t! What a umb a##.

[Tamzee]

Wow, incredible thread... thanks for the ping :-)

Indeed a classic, I lost count of how many times I fell into giggles!

[mylife]

The next time you go on an interstate or other highway, take along a 7 month old sized doll and try to duplicate what she was doing.

YUP.....Its the end of the world!

Gawd help us from mammas feedin babies!