Posted on 06/18/2003 7:51:38 AM PDT by El Laton Caliente
REDMOND, Wash. -- ATF agents stormed into an Eastside business early this morning -- and they were tight lipped about what they're hunting for.
They're still there tonight -- packing up many boxes of evidence.
ATF agents say this is just routine enforcement -- but it looks like much more.
It's all happening in Redmond, Redmond Police are on the scene helping with traffic and security.
Sources tell us that it's the makings of serious weapons that spurred this raid."
"Next thing I know there was ATF people all over the place," said eyewitness Gary Wilson.
Those agents zeroed in on this place -- in a Redmond industrial park.
We've learned it belongs to a business called P-W Arms Incorporated -- that deals in ammunition.
A man who doesn't want to be identified says he's seen piles of old ammo inside.
"Enough to fill a couple of 48 foot trailers -- maybe two or three," he said.
ATF agents, most of them undercover, came prepared for a big haul.
"There was probably a hundred of those officers here - and they swarmed in and evidently there was 6 of these trucks lined up in the street waiting," said John Bovee.
All day they've been hauling crates out of the business. Sources tell us what they found here is guns -- imported in separate pieces so they're legal -- but the parts can be put together to create illegal assault rifles.
Officially -- ATF won't say much at all.
"Only thing I can say right now is that we have an ongoing investigation," said Matt Horace, ATF agent.
The number of agents is large -- the stacks of evidence keep growing -- and the work doesn't seem to be slowing down. Still, ATF insists this is a routine enforcement action-- and people shouldn't worry.
"There's no imminent threat to public safety and we'll be here as long as it takes to conduct our investigation," Horace said.
So far agents have been on the scene about 8 hours. Again, ATF officials won't confirm what this is all about.
But a source tells us this raid is not in connection with a large crime ring or terrorism
Then they must hate the idea of a Militia, and get very impatient sitting around listening to readings from the Federalist treating with the Militia.
I had heard about the Weaver incident before Waco.
Before that, there was the M.O.V.E. Standoff in Philly.
If these were isolated incidents, that would be one thing, but it seems these were part of a progression in apocalyptic behaviour on the part of Federal Agencies.
Add Gordon Kahl to the list, while you are at it. Protested taxes and farm policy, bushwhacked on the roadside near Medina, N. Dakota, hunted down and killed in Arkansas (the building was burned there, too). The case can be readily made, that like Koresh, Kahl could have been taken peacefully.
It seems these people are 'taken out' in grandstand fashion to make an example to keep the rest of the sheep bleating softly. Either they are hungry for press near budget time, or eager to frighten others into submission.
I had heard about the Weaver incident before Waco.
Before that, there was the M.O.V.E. Standoff in Philly.
If these were isolated incidents, that would be one thing, but it seems these were part of a progression in apocalyptic behaviour on the part of Federal Agencies.
Add Gordon Kahl to the list, while you are at it. Protested taxes and farm policy, bushwhacked on the roadside near Medina, N. Dakota, hunted down and killed in Arkansas (the building was burned there, too). The case can be readily made, that like Koresh, Kahl could have been taken peacefully.
It seems these people are 'taken out' in grandstand fashion to make an example to keep the rest of the sheep bleating softly. Either they are hungry for press near budget time, or eager to frighten others into submission.
Go look up the Pew sociometric data from late 1999 on voting groups and see if you can pull out the data on RKBA opinion.
Or try the archives of Newsweek and pull out the article they wrote (and I saved somewhere but can't find now) at the time about the Pew data.
The secret to the problem is that Bush represents business-class individuals, who are corner-office types, entrepreneurs, execs, and a few others. They dislike private gun ownership in principle and in practice, but they're quieter about it than the ideologized snores who people the activist ranks of the Rat Party.
There is another group of yuppified ex-countercultural types that are mostly knowledge workers and some supervisory types, professionals, and so on, who are fairly liberal and don't like guns either. Neither do the smallest political type, older women (about 6% of the electorate), who positively dread firearms -- they're mostly a bundle of assorted anxieties and fears, and this is one of them.
I'm overgeneralizing horribly, but my basic point is that on RKBA, the Bush family cannot be counted on because their core values are Old Money and Wall Street (Hamiltonian) Republicanism, which has no room IMHO for a Militia, firearms, or an armed -- or even educated -- public.
That's one thing I'd disagree with. My perception, nothing more, is that your statement would have been true of the the smaller police forces. In places like NYC, getting on the police force, and maybe fire department, was for some a way to beat the draft. Don't know what the ratio of military to non-military has been on the PDs but it would be interesting to find out.
What a setup for a spectacular raid!! Keeps the ATF in the news and keeps those budgets fully funded.
True. But here we’re mixing polluted water with polluted water ….
Now tell me how your survival is threatened!
There are at least two single shot pistols available in these rounds, both dedicated calibre and not interchangeable barrels. I've fired both of them but it was several years ago at the range (they belonged to another shooter) and I don't recal the maker. Both were bolt action single shots.
As an aside from the article: I've seen .30 AP pulled bullets (projectiles) available at gunshows and such for reloaders (along with things like tracer bullets). Do you know if it's legal to make your own AP? Is the ban just on commercial manufacture and sale of the stuf and not private loading and posession?
Investigation on behalf of Congress seems OK to me. However, investigation "for services rendered as an informant to narcotics agents and the IRS" implies law enforcement, or the duties of the executive branch, which I would normally expect to run into the Constitutional issue of the separation of powers if given active assistance from Congress.
(Or are these fine points only debated by patsies in flyover country?)
(Or are these fine points only debated by patsies in flyover country?)
It's not at all an overly fine point; it's an outright collaberation between members of the executive branch and the legislative, probably with intent to utilize the judicial process to achieve their ends. That's a *pyramid of power* of the sort this country's founders killed Englishmen and Americans who supported the Crown to prevent, and they too debated such matters long before those former colonies became *flyover country.*
And that's just the best case; if there's even the slightest truth to the reports of BATF involvement in FBI COINTELPRO operations at the time, it probably extends well beyond just federal governmental efforts to have such troublesom individuals as labour leader Cesar Chavez, Eldridge Cleaver and Martin Luther King killed, but also in framing and blackmailing certain key congressmen and killing a few who wouldn't play ball; as with the *Operation Watch Tower* [see the *Cutolo Affidavit*] and *Operation Canton Song* [see the *DeFeo Report*] investigations that led to the invasion of Panama and removal of former accomplice Manuel Noriega.
And, very probably, certain eatrlier activities in the 1963-1968 period....
I, too, wonder the same thing, Mr. Hot Brass.
Y'all need to start paying closer attention.
-archy-/-
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.