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Trotskycons? (Neo-Con Scholar Confesses Neo-Conservatism Was Founded By Trotskyite Communists)
National Review ^ | June 11, 2003 | Steven Schwartz

Posted on 06/16/2003 5:03:58 PM PDT by ComtedeMaistre

Trotskycons?

Pasts and present.

By Stephen Schwartz

EXCERPTS

".....This path had been pioneered much earlier by two Trotskyists: James Burnham, who became a founder of National Review, and Irving Kristol, who worked on Encounter magazine. Burnham was joined at NR by Suzanne LaFollette, who, piquantly enough, retained some copyrights to Trotskyist material until her death. But they were not the only people on the right who remained, in some degree, sentimental about their left-wing past. Willmoore Kendall, for example, was, as I recall, a lifelong contributor to relief for Spanish radical leftist refugees living in France. Above all, Burnham and Kristol, in a certain sense, did not renounce their pasts. They acknowledged that they had evolved quite dramatically away from their earlier enthusiasms. But they did not apologize, did not grovel, did not crawl and beg forgiveness for having, at one time, been stirred by the figure of Trotsky......"

"......That is, of course, insufficient for some people. There remain those for whom any taint of leftism is a permanent stain, and who cannot abide an individual who, having in the past been a Trotskyist, does not now caper and grimace in self-loathing over the historical truth, which is that, yes, Trotsky commanded the Red Army, and yes, Trotsky wielded a sword, and yes, Trotsky, a man of moral consistency if nothing else, took responsibility for the crimes of the early Bolshevik regime. But of that, more anon......"

"......Well, I consider Beichman's intent more sinister: to exclude Hitchens and myself from consideration as reliable allies in the struggle against Islamist extremism, because we have yet to apologize for something I, for one, will never consider worthy of apology. There is clearly a group of heresy-hunters among the original neoconservatives who resent having to give way to certain newer faces, with our own history and culture. These older neoconservatives cannot take yes for an answer, and they especially loathe Hitchens. But nobody ever asked Norman Podhoretz to apologize for having once written poetry praising the Soviet army. Nobody ever asked the art critic Meyer Schapiro, who was also a Trotskyist, to flog himself for assisting illegal foreign revolutionaries at a time when it was considered unpatriotic, to say the least. Nobody ever asked Shachtman or Burnham, or, for that matter, Sidney Hook, or Edmund Wilson, or a hundred others, to grovel and beg mercy for inciting war on capitalism in the depths of the Great Depression........"

".....One might also add that nobody ever asked Jay Lovestone and Bertram Wolfe, ex-Communists whose company Beichman doubtless would prefer, to apologize for having defended the Soviet purge trials and the Stalinist state, long after so many of the brave band that carried a banner with the strange device of the Fourth International were murdered for their defiance of Stalinism. And I have yet to read an apology by Beichman for his own involvement with the Communist network......"

"......To my last breath I will defend the Trotsky who alone, and pursued from country to country, and finally laid low in his own blood in a hideously hot little house in Mexico City, said no to Soviet coddling of Hitlerism, to the Moscow purges, and to the betrayal of the Spanish Republic, and who had the capacity to admit he had been wrong about the imposition of a single-party state, as well as about the fate of the Jewish people. To my last breath, and without apology. Let the neofascists, and Stalinists in their second childhood, make of it what they will......."

(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Foreign Affairs; Politics/Elections; Russia; US: New York; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: communists; leftists; neocommies; neocons; neoconservatives; stevenschwartz; trotsky; trotskycons
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To: Reactionary
Because=became
21 posted on 06/16/2003 6:35:36 PM PDT by Reactionary
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To: Reactionary
The entire thing is another fabrication on the part of a Leftist writer who's attempting to link a handful of ex-Trotskyites who because neo-conservatives to the neo-conservative movement as a whole.

If the whole thing is a fabrication by Jeet Heer, then why is Schwartz, an un-apologetic Trotskyite, attacking Beichman while defending Jeet Heer?

22 posted on 06/16/2003 6:36:46 PM PDT by Maximilian
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To: Reactionary
In other words, it's bit like saying that since David Horowitz is an ex-communist and now a popular right-wing author, the ghost of Stalin haunts the right-wing publishing industry. Patently idiotic, of course, but standard fair for the guilt-by-association crowd.

I don't find it idiotic at all. Even Horowitz himself would be unable to know how deeply he has been influenced by his Stalinist past, and how much of it continues to perdure in his intellectual approach to issues.

And it's not "guilt-by-association" when the featured Trotskyite is proud of his past, and more than happy to proclaim it to the world.

23 posted on 06/16/2003 6:39:37 PM PDT by Maximilian
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To: Captain Kirk
Had Trotsky ever gained power, there is every reason to believe he would have governed as the Russian version of Pol Pot.

Trotsky did pretty good when he ran War Communism. Churches dynamited and looted. Millions murdered. The entire Bolshevik movement was a criminal organization from the start. Marxism was the cover for theft and murder. They were after power and money, not social justice. Trotsky was a clever and articulate criminal. Nothing more. U.S. Attorney General A Mitchell Palmer made the case in 1920:

Robbery . . .is the ideal of communism. This has been demonstrated in Russia, Germany, and in America. . . . Because a disreputable alien . . .Trotzky . . . can inaugurate a reign of terror from his throne room in the Kremlin, because this lowest of all types known to New York can sleep in the Czar's bed, while hundreds of thousands in Russia are without food or shelter, should Americans be swayed by such doctrines?

. . .communism in this country was an organization of thousands of aliens who were direct allies of Trotzky. Aliens of the same misshapen caste of mind and indecencies of character, and it showed that they were making the same glittering promises of lawlessness, of criminal autocracy to Americans, that they had made to the Russian peasants. . . .

The whole purpose of communism (is) a mass formation of the criminals of the world to overthrow the decencies of private life, to usurp property that they have not earned, to disrupt the present order of life regardless of health, sex or religious rights. By a literature that promises the wildest dreams of such low aspirations, that can occur to only the criminal minds, communism distorts our social law....

This stuff about neocons and Trotsky is bunk. There is no one of importance on the American national political scene who has any relationship to Trotskyism whatsoever (well, maybe Bill and Hillary...nah...not even them).
24 posted on 06/16/2003 6:44:37 PM PDT by DPB101 (The first lawyer elected Speaker of the House of Representatives was arrested for treason)
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To: 11th Earl of Mar
Hmm? Jews? Are you an anti-semite?
25 posted on 06/16/2003 7:01:09 PM PDT by Captain Kirk
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To: Maximilian
"Even Horowitz himself would be unable to know how deeply he has been influenced by his Stalinist past, and how much of it continues to perdure in his intellectual approach to issues."

Why is that? Why is it that in order to be a critic one must assume that one knows the author better than he knows himself?

Frankly, I find the whole business of deconstructing motives to be a hinderance to the formation of any intellect at all.

26 posted on 06/16/2003 7:13:50 PM PDT by Reactionary
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To: DPB101
Trotsky did pretty good when he ran War Communism. Churches dynamited and looted. Millions murdered.

So you are pinning the murder of millions on Trotsky? That's absurd and the first time I've ever seen him put up in the ranks of the Stalin Mao and Lenin. I cannot remember ever seeing Hitler accused of "murdering" the millions of combatants that were killed in WW2 by the Germans

27 posted on 06/16/2003 7:31:17 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: Reactionary
Just because Mr. Horowitz engages in slapping around lefties that does not make him a right-winger. It merely means that he is a disillusioned leftist.
28 posted on 06/16/2003 7:32:17 PM PDT by TradicalRC (Fides quaerens intellectum.)
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To: dennisw
>>>>He wasn't ruthless enough to preserve his Soviet power in Russia and was exiled. He wasn't ruthless enough, cunning enough to remain while Stalin ruled. But many others were. He was too much the "theoretician" (intellectual) and not enough the wielder of ruthless power.<<<<<

I suppose one could say that Pol Pot was not "ruthless enough" to stay in power for even 5 years.

For crying out loud, Trotsky founded the Red Army, the most murderous organization of the 20th century. He bears responsibility for some of the worst acts of butchery in Soviet history, including the murder of the czar and his family.

As far as most victims of communism are concerned, there is no difference between Stalin, Trotsky or Pol Pot. They are all mass murderers.
29 posted on 06/16/2003 7:58:49 PM PDT by ComtedeMaistre
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To: dennisw
>>>>Trotsky was pussycat compared to them.<<<<

A pussy cat that founded the Soviet army?
30 posted on 06/16/2003 8:00:02 PM PDT by ComtedeMaistre
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To: Restorer
>>>>BTW, neocon is a term very few of these people have consistently applied to themselves<<<<

Didn't ex-Troskyite, Irving Kristol, write a book on neo-conservatism?
31 posted on 06/16/2003 8:01:37 PM PDT by ComtedeMaistre
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To: ComtedeMaistre
As far as most victims of communism are concerned, there is no difference between Stalin, Trotsky or Pol Pot. They are all mass murderers.

Don't be silly with sloppy reasoning. To repeat Marx once again, "Quantity changes quality". No way did Trotsky kill millions. This is never written about because it never happened. He was not the mass murdering psycho that other communists were. Such as a Mao or a Stalin. Pol Pot. Hitler.

32 posted on 06/16/2003 8:06:17 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: dennisw
The numbers are estimates. Nobody knows. 100,000 to half a million executed by Dzerzhinskii. Concentration camps erected. Slave labor instituted (more kindly referred to as a "draft"). 3 to 10 million killed in a manmade famine. All between 1918 and 1922. Trotsky was as much responsible as Lenin and the rest of the top Bolsheviks. So was John Reed who received over a million dollars from the Bolsheviks in 1920 to write propaganda for them. The Black Book of Communist details much of it. Some good quotes from Richard Pipes and others are here( Prof. Bryan Caplan. George Mason U.)

I used to believe Trotsky was the ideologue who was not involved in any atrocities beyond what one would expect in a Revolution and Civil War. The information which has been released in the last decade changed my mind. I'm open to correction.

But, once again, I don't get what Trotsky's ideology has to do with anyone in the GOP (or the Democrat party). This neocon stuff is annoying. Seems to be nothing more than an attempt to split conservatives.

33 posted on 06/16/2003 8:26:23 PM PDT by DPB101 (The first lawyer elected Speaker of the House of Representatives was arrested for treason)
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To: dennisw
>>>>No way did Trotsky kill millions. This is never written about because it never happened.<<<<<

Unlike Marx, Trotsky's career was not limited to being confined to a library, reading stacks of books on history and philosophy.

Trotsky founded the Red Army. People were murdered under military units he commanded. Even Shwartz does not deny his crimes against anti-Bolshevik forces.

To deny Trotsky's crimes, is similar to those historical revisionists who try to absolve Hitler from the crimes committed in the Nazi death camps, because they say that no written order from Hitler exists ordering the extermination of concentration camp victims.

In fact, I consider Trotsky a worse criminal than Joseph Goebbels of Nazi Germany, because Trotsky actually founded and led murderous military units, while Goebbels job was limited to spreading poisonous (but nonetheless, damaging) propaganda.
34 posted on 06/16/2003 8:28:25 PM PDT by ComtedeMaistre
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To: Maximilian
>>>>He is offered the opportunity -- but declines -- to denounce Trotsky as "the man who "mercilessly wiped out rebellious anti-Bolshevik soldiers and sailors at Kronstadt."<<<<<

Isn't that incredible? Can you believe that there are still people who defend a monster as vile as Leon Trotsky, but still insist on calling themselves conservatives?

Most people who point out that ugly aspect of neo-conservatism, get shouted down as "nativists", "McCarthyites", "reactionaries", "extremists", "anti-semites", etc.
35 posted on 06/16/2003 8:34:12 PM PDT by ComtedeMaistre
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To: ComtedeMaistre
Trotsky commanded a military. Who are you claiming he murdered that run into the millions? Who exactly and were they non combatants or opposing military units? War is war and usually not murderer. Americans were killed by Japanese in the Pacific in WW2. No one claims they were murdered. Some were murdered on the Bataan Death March, yes. But combat during war is not defined as murder.



You are running a tendentious game here.
36 posted on 06/16/2003 8:35:03 PM PDT by dennisw
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To: ComtedeMaistre
SPOTREP
37 posted on 06/16/2003 8:52:43 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: ComtedeMaistre
I like your screenname. Are you a monarchist, by any chance? (I am, and unsurprisingly agree with you about Trotsky.)
38 posted on 06/16/2003 10:04:19 PM PDT by royalcello
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To: Maximilian
If the whole thing is a fabrication by Jeet Heer, then why is Schwartz, an un-apologetic Trotskyite, attacking Beichman while defending Jeet Heer?

I'm sure he has his reasons. But that is a matter for psychological speculation, not political discussion.

39 posted on 06/16/2003 10:10:35 PM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: ComtedeMaistre
Can you believe that there are still people who defend a monster as vile as Leon Trotsky, but still insist on calling themselves conservatives? Most people who point out that ugly aspect of neo-conservatism..

How the hell is than an "aspect of neo-conservatism"?

It's an aspect of this guy Stephen Schwarz, whoever that is. You seem to extrapolate quite a bit.

40 posted on 06/16/2003 10:17:10 PM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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