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Flush Toilets Called 'Environmental Disaster'
CNSNews.com ^ | 6/12/03 | Marc Morano

Posted on 06/12/2003 2:27:25 AM PDT by kattracks

CNSNews.com) - Forget the convenience and sanitation of the flush toilet that industrialized nations have enjoyed for most of the past century.

A growing number of environmentalists are now advocating the expanded use of compost or dry toilets worldwide to combat what they see as an international water crisis.

Proponents of dry toilets, set to convene at the first annual international Dry Toilet 2003 conference in Tampere, Finland, August 20-23, warn of "environmental disaster" if developing nations aspire to flush toilets so prevalent in the industrialized world.

Critics of the upcoming conference say the widespread use of dry toilets in the developing world is nothing more than a "celebration of primitivism" and call the flush toilet the "greatest public health advance in the modern era."

A waterless dry toilet, which generally costs about $2,000, collects human urine and feces and requires emptying by humans on a regular basis. Advocates claim the resulting matter can then be composted and used as fertilizer for food crops.

Larry Warnberg, a featured speaker at the conference, said China and other developing world nations cannot aspire to mimic the U.S. and Europe's reliance on modern flush toilets and the resultant sewage infrastructure.

"That is a wrong turn, and it will just be an environmental disaster. The same is true in Brazil and Africa. There are better choices," Warnberg told CNSNews.com. Warnberg, who will speak to the conference about "Reducing Regulatory Barriers to Composting Toilets," also markets manuals on how to build a do-it-yourself dry toilet.

Warnberg calls his toilet designs S.C.A.T., for Solar Composting Advanced Toilet.

Warnberg laments the widespread use of flush toilets in the industrialized nations of the U.S. and Europe, and he does not want to see the flush toilet adopted by the developing nations in Africa and South America.

"I think it is a mistake to inflict that convenience on a developing county and cost without realizing what the consequences are," Warnberg added.

'Celebration of primitivism'

But critics bristle at the notion that the developing world cannot aspire to the standards of the industrialized world.

"The dry or compost toilet might suit those who wish to drop out of highly developed industrial society, but to advocate them as a solution for developing countries is totally unacceptable and represents little more than a celebration of primitivism," said Ceri Dingle of the British-based charitable education group Worldwrite, which focuses on development issues and sponsors international student exchange programs.

"Thirteen percent of Africans have a sewage connection; that is, a flushing toilet leading to a sewage system, while for North America, the figure is 100 percent and Europe 92 percent," said Dingle. "This is what the developing world aspires to, not make do and mend."

Dingle's group sponsored a campaign on June 7 that included a march by "volunteers from developing countries who want their desire for piped water, flushing loos (toilets) and modern facilities taken seriously."

"The preoccupation with dry toilets is also an anti-human prejudice based on complete panics and irrational fears about planetary water shortages," Dingle added.

Dennis Avery, director of global food issues for the Hudson Institute, agreed with Dingle and was blunt in his defense of the modern flush toilet.

"It's one of the greatest public health advances in the modern era. It's not only convenient, but it is also safer" Avery told CNSNews.com. Avery said the public benefits from the lower incidence of diseases like cholera and typhoid since the widespread use of modern flush toilets and sewage treatment systems.

The flush toilet is not even responsible for significant water usage, according to Avery.

"You can't solve the water problem by taking care of something that is only 5 to 10 percent of the usage," Avery explained. Agricultural use of water accounts for about 70 percent of worldwide water usage, and industry accounts for about 23 percent, according to Avery.

'A matter of education'

Dry toilet advocates claim the devices have advantages but concede there is the issue of routine emptying of excrement from the toilets.

Warnberg's website explains that the dry toilets need to be emptied at 6- to 12-month intervals, "depending on loading," and his design includes the use of earthworms to "provide mixing and aeration."

Warnberg concedes the emptying procedures may make some people squeamish. "It takes more responsibility than a flush toilet, there is no getting around it. Some systems are easier to use than others. It's largely a matter of education," Warnberg said.

But one past user of a dry toilet chronicled his negative experiences in an essay published on this website called "The Trouble With Composting Toilets." The essay, written by Dave Keenan, details his problems with insects and odors that his dry toilet produced in his home.

After having decided that "Thomas Crapper's flush toilet was a fiendish invention," Keenan bought a dry toilet and initially "basked in the warm glow of having done the right thing for the environment" before encountering a problem.

"No matter what I tried over the years, there were always times when one could not lift the lid without several flies lifting off and heading for the kitchen," Keenan wrote.

"Even if I was to be convinced that there was little health danger from flies coming out of the toilet and landing on food, e.g. drosophila (fruit flies) go straight for the fruit bowl, how would I convince my guests that it was ok?" Keenan added.

After four years of living with the dry toilet, Keenan gave up and installed a flush toilet in his home.

"So, from my experience, I cannot recommend composting toilets to anyone, unless they have a serious water shortage, and they live in a non-urban area, and they locate it outside their insect-screened house envelope (on a verandah would be fine)," he wrote.

'Dangerous, dangerous, dangerous'

Another purported benefit of dry toilets is the ability to use the composted excrement for fertilizing human food crops.

"A proper dry toilet system with the recycling of the urine and the feces as a compost product, brings more productivity to crops and improves the land quality," Tittiina Repka, conference secretary of the upcoming Dry Toilet conference, told CNSNews.com.

Repka believes cultural taboos in many parts of the world will have to be changed for people to accept using their feces and urine as fertilizer for food crops.

"People seem to think that human [manure] is something really dirty and should not go into any kind of food circulation systems," Repka said.

But not everyone sees the use of composted human feces on food as a panacea.

"It's dangerous, dangerous, dangerous. You are talking about all kinds of bacterial issues; human manure has human pathogens in it." Avery countered.

Despite claims by advocates of dry toilets that excrement is safe for use as fertilizer if it's properly composted, Avery remained skeptical.

"In labs, under ideal conditions, human manure can be safely disinfected. But manure in the hands of average people out there day after day, time after time, you are taking about enormous risk," Avery said.

"Can you imagine a block full of homes, each of them dumping their wastes in their backyard this way; the odor, the disgust, the public health risk?" Avery asked.

Dingle of Worldwrite does not see the need to even contemplate using your homegrown feces for fertilizer.

"Since chemical fertilizers have massively increased the productivity of commercialized agriculture, there is no evidence to suggest we even need to concern ourselves with preserving and using human waste since we have developed much healthier alternatives," Dingle said.

Avery predicted that dry toilets would ultimately go down the drain.

"If you didn't have to handle [composted feces], if you didn't have to put this on your food crops, if you didn't have to accept the odors and the filth and the disgust, maybe it then it would sell," Avery said.

See Related Article:
Introduction of the Flush Toilet Deplored at Earth Summit
(Aug. 20, 2002)

E-mail a news tip to Marc Morano.

Send a Letter to the Editor about this article.




TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: environment; toilet; water
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Dry toilet advocates claim the devices have advantages but concede there is the issue of routine emptying of excrement from the toilets.

Maybe thee environmentalists can start an organization composed of volunteers from their ranks to do the emptying. It shouldn't really bother them, they are used to shoveling bulls... um, nevermind.

1 posted on 06/12/2003 2:27:25 AM PDT by kattracks
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To: kattracks
This sounds like a bunch of crap to me.

Barn Owl

2 posted on 06/12/2003 2:31:42 AM PDT by Barn Owl
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To: kattracks
Uh... Well... I guess there's not much you can really add to this save that the name pretty much conveys everything you need to know.
3 posted on 06/12/2003 2:36:24 AM PDT by pcx99
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To: kattracks
Time to buy more ammo.
4 posted on 06/12/2003 2:36:57 AM PDT by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
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To: kattracks
Way back when, they were called "Honey Dippers". Good job for these whackos!
5 posted on 06/12/2003 2:37:33 AM PDT by raisincane
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To: kattracks
I want a toilet that flushes! When I have enough money, I hope to go to Canada and get one. Here is a simple suggestion of what we could do, however. Since the enviro-wackos have already immobilized most of our toilets anyway, we should use Clinton pots [formerly called chamber pots] and have a special, metal container to mass collect the waste. The container should be on sturdy wheels, possibly with a trailor hitch, because when it's close to full, we wheel the contents to the nearest enviro-wacko neighbor and allow our enviro-friendly neighbor to flush it for us. Our neighbor could even be paid what would normally go to the septic tank guy. But anyone who doesn't pay taxes can have the service for free.

One problem, cleaning up the Clinton pot. It's kind of like trying to cover up all the Clinton crimes. Something gets dirty in the smelly process.
6 posted on 06/12/2003 2:38:39 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (LIBERTY or DEATH!)
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To: kattracks
"...It shouldn't really bother them, they are used to shoveling bulls... um, nevermind..."

Uups. You said it better and before me. Sorry. Fun thread. =]
7 posted on 06/12/2003 2:40:23 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (LIBERTY or DEATH!)
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To: kattracks
The flush toilets mandated by the govt are a disaster. The mandated 1.6 gallon flush couldn't flush a rat turd down the toilet.
When I move I'm going to the Home Depot and buying a couple of new toilets and taking my old trusty 5 gallon flushers with me.
8 posted on 06/12/2003 2:40:37 AM PDT by Joe Boucher
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To: kattracks
Maybe thee environmentalists can start an organization composed of volunteers from their ranks to do the emptying. It shouldn't really bother them, they are used to shoveling bulls... um, nevermind.

ok im sorry i cant resist

Here I Sit Same As Ever Took A Dump,Pulled The Lever The Toilet Clogged..The Water Flowed Look Out World,Its A Motherload

once again sorry but i couldnt resist lol

9 posted on 06/12/2003 2:40:49 AM PDT by MetalHeadConservative35 (New Jersey Devils: The 2003 Stanley Cup Champions!!!! (It will return to detroit next season))
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To: kattracks
Environmentalists... snicker...
10 posted on 06/12/2003 2:42:08 AM PDT by xm177e2 (Stalinists, Maoists, Ba'athists, Pacifists: Why are they always on the same side?)
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To: Caipirabob
"Time to buy more ammo."

We could take some of Saddam's hollow ammo and load it with Clinton. That was the true reason for such weaponry anyway, to help us out.


11 posted on 06/12/2003 2:42:40 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (LIBERTY or DEATH!)
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To: kattracks
I have a better idea. Let's just eliminate running water.
12 posted on 06/12/2003 2:44:06 AM PDT by johniegrad
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To: Joe Boucher
The flush toilets mandated by the govt are a disaster. The mandated 1.6 gallon flush couldn't flush a rat turd down the toilet. When I move I'm going to the Home Depot and buying a couple of new toilets and taking my old trusty 5 gallon flushers with me.

At our house we've figured this must be the government's logic for the low flow toilets.

Since it takes 1.6 gal. to flush, but you have to flush 3 times instead of just once, you are still saving .2 gal. per bathroom use. (end/sarcasm)

13 posted on 06/12/2003 2:44:58 AM PDT by dawn53
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To: Joe Boucher
It's odd that the same lefties who claim that they want the government out of their bedrooms (it's not there in reality) demand its presence in the bathroom.
14 posted on 06/12/2003 2:50:51 AM PDT by weegee (NO BLOOD FOR RATINGS: CNN let human beings be tortured and killed to keep their Baghdad bureau open)
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To: farmfriend
fyi
15 posted on 06/12/2003 2:51:54 AM PDT by Free the USA (Stooge for the Rich)
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To: johniegrad
I have a better idea. Let's just eliminate running water.

If Albert Gore Junior had been a "native American", his Indian name would have been Running Water (remember his incontinent experience with that iced tea at the fund raising meeting?).

16 posted on 06/12/2003 2:53:48 AM PDT by weegee (NO BLOOD FOR RATINGS: CNN let human beings be tortured and killed to keep their Baghdad bureau open)
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To: kattracks
It's one of the greatest public health advances in the modern era. It's not only convenient, but it is also safer" Avery told CNSNews.com. Avery said the public benefits from the lower incidence of diseases like cholera and typhoid since the widespread use of modern flush toilets and sewage treatment systems.

Affirmative. But a sewage treatment system is required, that is why there are a lot of diseases when they flush everything into the sea or into a river. A very effective way of spreading bugs.

Environmentalists can be flushed with the other crap.
17 posted on 06/12/2003 2:58:50 AM PDT by AdmSmith
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To: AdmSmith
If it's brown, flush it down;
If it's yellow, let it melllow.
18 posted on 06/12/2003 3:22:17 AM PDT by mc5cents
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To: kattracks
What the enviro wackos ought to do to advance this is to supply free beer to men, as I am much more likely to pee in the bushes when drunk than when sober.
19 posted on 06/12/2003 3:23:45 AM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: kattracks
I just got two new Kohler's and they're great, even with the reduced water tank.....it seems that if you get a new model, scientifically designed for less water, it's works well....
20 posted on 06/12/2003 3:25:38 AM PDT by The Wizard (Saddamocrats are enemies of America, treasonous everytime they speak)
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