Teachers' poor pay just myth

Scottsdale Republic ^ | Craig J. Cantoni

[hsmomx3]

Contrary to union propaganda, teachers are not underpaid. I say this as someone with 28 years of experience in conducting salary surveys and designing pay plans.

According to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, local elementary school teachers earn about the same average pay on an hourly basis as local reporters ($23.74). They also earn more than microbiologists ($20.60), zoologists ($17.36) and accountants ($22.49). Secondary school teachers even earn more per hour than civil engineers.

[Amelia]

After that, no classroom experience until I student teach my last semester.

That's too bad. You learn a lot more by actually teaching than by them telling you about teaching...Your summer experience will be good.

[kjam22]

Well, get your asbestos suit on and get ready for the flames for daring to touch the sacred cow of homeschooling!

LOL... yeah.. I know. People read "homeschool" and immediately they have this idea of parents and kids having all these positive learning experiences every day and how these kids are so much better taught and adjusted. Sometimes it's true. Sometimes it isn't. To be honest... I think often it isn't. Homeschooling is a matter of choice... but if a parent really doesn't want their kid in public school (and depending on the public school district I can completely understand that), they should at least look at the private school option first.

Everyone talks about the liberal public schools ... yada yada yada. I would just say that not all districts are like that. If a person lives in a state or district that is heavily democrat, you probably have a problem. The environment where my wife teaches is very similar to when I went to school 30 years ago. There really are conservative, christian areas of this country that have represenative school districts.

[babyface00]

Just over 20,000 to start. Man that sure is raking in the dough

Thats for what, 8 months of work? Do the math, that's the equivalent of 27k starting salary.

Name another career where you can make that kind of starting salary, with lavish benefits, near zero chance of being fired, fabulous retirement plan, all with a four-year degree. And, if you do nothing else but get higher degrees (which most professional people have to do without getting the summers off), you get automatic salary increases. Plus, and maybe this is inaccurate, but how much really changes from year-to-year in math, english, social studies, etc.? Most of the rest of us have to keep going back for training just to keep up with changes in technology. Teachers can get by with reiterating the same thing they taught last year (and I suspect quite a few of mine did).

I'm not saying teachers aren't worth it. What I am saying is that they should stop whining that they're overpaid, because they'd be making far less, over more hours per week, with less time off and a lousy retirement plan if they had to work in the private sector with their equivalent skills and education. When you factor in that they're paid based on taxes confiscated from the public, and particularly if you factor in the overall performance results of their 12 years of "teaching" ("do you want fries with that?"), their whining is even more dispicable.

If its so bad, find a job in the private sector. Certainly, stop standing in the way of reform (via the NEA) that would benefit children.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

Yes, Lady Eileen ,and I assume you mean that to go to everyone here who has called me hateful , bigot, idiot as well , right.

Let's please rememebr that you agree with me, not because you like me, but most likley you have had similiar experiences to mine re: education system.

I guess I should have said that it is idiodic to claim someone is lying , when in fact you have no way of finding out for yourself. I guess I should have said it is iditioc( short for foolsih, shows no common sense) to claiim I am lying about something like having a laptop.

It is a shame that people who don't like what you say can call you a lair and call you names, and a heated response gets the slap on the hand.

That is everyhting that is wrong with public education today :take the punch, and if you hit back you will be suspended.

It is idiotioc to talk about taxpayers burden and berate someone who pays taxes, when you have never paid any taxes, or have paid very little. ( see student teachers here, and first year teachers) Some who are calling me names here are not even teachers yet, or have been for two years. I do not think I am insulting all freepers and lurkers by making statements or using a word in the dictionary that describes correctly a situation.

On this thread , if I said the sky was blue you would hear shrill hysteria and idiotioc statements ,like I can not provide a link to that and I am lying and I can not go on personal experience to form judgements. Trust me.

I get called names because I am direct. I would hope any freepers or lurkers following this thread would not assume I am a liar about every statement I make. They would only be insulted if they thought I was lying about having a laptop.

I will pass on your advice, I will use the words I like to use. And awhen I am under fire I will fight back. If I call names back then so be it. If I inuslt someone with a statement about how I feel, I suggest people do not read posts from me. I have censored how I really feel in order to try and follow Jim Rob's rules. I suspose I would hear from him if I was way out of line. It is a fact of life that people get angry and say things. With due respect, this is not a ladies tea.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

Now you want to play nice. You were the first to name call. YOu have called me a liar ,a hateful bigot, and made refrence to my children being immoral. I do think that is crossing the line. Now when I address you in a similar fashion you want to cry foul. You have made my point. YOu can not have it both ways.

My hatred of people who are using taxpayers to milk the system ,and run the educational system into the ground ,is a popular theme here at Freerepublic. Most conservatives do not like, even hate people who take advantage of children and demand more taxes to do so, ( Read the NEA) That has been my whole point.

You have treaded into deep waters, I told you I have years experience in this area and a great passion tosee reform of the educational system. If you want to call me names and berate me be prepared. I have made statements aout my experience and my observations, I am entitled to do that here, and anywhere in America.

As our friend Ann Coulter says" It's not so much fun when the rabbit has the gun."

Get used to it dear, there are many thousands and millions of us who have had it with the NEA, and anyone who supports them.

Don't you dare call me names and then play sweet and innocent.... If you ahd such a great memeory, you would rememebr post after post calling me names and berating my point of view. If you don't support the NEA ,what have you been arguing with me about in the first place?

[Diva Betsy Ross]

Sure I just saw that, Even though I have explain this numerous times. I have worked with ths school board in Strategic planning and various commitees that needed help. I have done that for four years. I have been on the commitee for budget , for developing kindergarten progarams for assesments of tests, for building and renoovation of our middle school, for assesment of grading system ,and for assesment of gifted programs. I was a school social worker for three years, I worked in an outpatient mental health clinic as a therapist's aid for kids who ahd been sent for ADD and ADHD.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

I see the name calling spirial has not ended with you. I will answer only to show you how foolish your statements are. Children can do many things by themselves, like read, watch t.v, play in their rooms, nap. When they are doing these things I sometimes get on FR> Yesterday I had ome spare time for a topic that I have passion for. YOu say I am shallow and obsessed with myself, in fact I am obsessed with the political nature of the education system today , because I am obseessed with reform for my chilfren's sake. I know, so shallow of me. Boy you must have met a good deal of shawlow people here at FR.

We all have our topics and most of us are conservatives that want smaller governement and lower taxes ,intensley. How shallow of them all. How crazy of them ... how weird .

I see you don't like people sho disagree with you. Why don't you listen to fellow liberals on this thread,stop the personal attacks. It is so unbecomming of you , really.

[ampat]

Don't forget to figure in the fact that some students are home-schooled and private-schooled. That ups the spending per pupil some more.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

The money for running the public school system comes from the taxpayers.

I did not say you were stupid for spending money on materials, I said you did not NEED to spend as much as you did , and that you could find a bunch of it for free. The only way you will change a ciriculium today is to be in the NEA, or try really hard and fight the school board and the system. So your money was a wasted if you think you can choose what your students will learn. You have little to no control over that thanks to the NEA and department of Education. In fact, I never day you were stupid at all.

Because you have misrepresented almost everything I have said ,you have caused alot of confusion here.

I told another young teacher here that when you get into the real world you will realize you do no tknow 1/2 of what you think you know. When I was your age I was what I thought was a "conservative " social worker. I know your type because I was similair to you in certain ways.

I have not said most of the things you have attributed to me. The other things you have twisted to fit your needs.

I know many young teachers think they can shape the future and that they have powers close to God, howver, it is the NEA and dept. of ED that is God in education. If you don't know that you have a lot to learn about teaching. You will remember these words some day when the NEA has kicked your butt a few times. You will rememebr me because all I ever said was basicly get rid of the NEA. It is clear that you do not want to talk about the system, but you and the others want to call me names and get me to hush. I will be done with this thread, but I wil be on the next one making the same point. So will many others. They can't all be hatful lying bigots like you think I am. I hope those people there will be seriously mined adults who want to try and fix a problem, not just name call ,and show off the text books they have sitting nest to them. It is pathetic what this discussion has become.

See you around the ole educational water cooler.

[Lady Eileen]

Yes, Lady Eileen ,and I assume you mean that to go to everyone here who has called me hateful , bigot, idiot as well , right.

Yes you are right .... You were not the only one calling names...this comment I made to NMCAM is for everyone who called names. Thanks NMCAM for the correction.

Let's please rememebr that you agree with me, not because you like me, but most likley you have had similiar experiences to mine re: education system.

I am sure I have had many similar experiences as yours with the government school system...I have many personal horror stories and I have seen so much corruption.

I get called names because I am direct.

I too on occasions get called names because I am direct...I however...and I am not perfect... try not to call names back : )

[CyberCowboy777]

Looks like we're all enablers.

The question is: What to we enable?

I have never been a teacher and it may well not be a cushy job. I don't really care, they choose to be there and choose to work in the system.

[CyberCowboy777]

and in the public relations realm, such actions tend to backfire on the teachers, no matter how justified their reason for striking.

Yet thousands of teacher do such actions regularly in all three states of my adult life. For pay raises and to protest partial payment on bennies.

If it is important to them they will speak out. I highly doubt parents would be angry if teachers spoke out against poor education.

[CyberCowboy777]

A great quote.....

Without a Hitler reference!

[Dead Dog]

I have never been a teacher and it may well not be a cushy job. I don't really care, they choose to be there and choose to work in the system.

Sounds like Clinton talking about our military.

[CyberCowboy777]

unfortunately "bad words" and hyperbole often defile a intelligent discussion.

I often quote Hitler in context on education, gun control, humanism, environmentalism and human rights. There is so much to be learned about Modern Fascism from the thoughts and words of Hitler and his stoolies.

I do try to keep from calling names though, I highly doubt anyone on Free Republic want to kill millions of innocents.

[Fiddlstix]

Bump

[CyberCowboy777]

I certainly do not want to "sound" like Clinton. Could I possibly turn into Clinton if I continue? Will Hillary be turned on by my impression? You are scaring me you know?

Still, I worry little about other "difficult" jobs as well. I hardly ever concern myself with the garbage man, the air traffic controller or the park ranger. But make no mistake, if I felt they were enablers in a corrupt system I would speak out on the system and the enablers.

Again, I have never said teacher are all bad, or bad people. They choose their blindfold and must live in that darkness, not I. I concern myself mostly with the system.

[CyberCowboy777]

"When facts fail, raise the volume"

I have heard the quote or a variation of it but do not know who it is attributed to.

Good quote though.... Maybe we can give it to Twain or Franklin?

[Lady Eileen]

Again, I have never said teacher are all bad, or bad people. They choose their blindfold and must live in that darkness, not I. I concern myself mostly with the system.

I do wish that those who work for the government school system would be willing to take their blindfolds off...until then I will continue to expose what goes on in the darkness and fight for true education freedom.

[CyberCowboy777]

Here Here!