Teachers' poor pay just myth

Scottsdale Republic ^ | Craig J. Cantoni

[hsmomx3]

Contrary to union propaganda, teachers are not underpaid. I say this as someone with 28 years of experience in conducting salary surveys and designing pay plans.

According to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, local elementary school teachers earn about the same average pay on an hourly basis as local reporters ($23.74). They also earn more than microbiologists ($20.60), zoologists ($17.36) and accountants ($22.49). Secondary school teachers even earn more per hour than civil engineers.

[Yardstick]

*Thanks*. I'll be talking to him on Father's Day and I'll pass that along.

[ReagansShinyHair]

"I believe in my stats. class we were taught it is accurate to make assumptions about people based upon the evidence you have gathered on 100 people."

In your statistical class you should have learned that #1, your sample can hardly be randomly selected.

#2, you should have learned this when it comes to determining the sample size needed:

Statistical factors to consider:

Variability in the population:
The more heterogeneous the population, the larger the sample needed

Desired degree of precision required:
The greater the degree the precision required, the larger the sample needed.

Desired degree of confidence in results:
If both high precision and high confidence are required the larger the sample needed compared to high precision but lower confidence level, i.e. there is a trade off between precision and confidence.

The extent of analysis on subsets of the sample:
The more analysis carried out on subgroups, the larger the sample needed.

#3, In my statistics classes, we learned that the point at which a *randomly selected* sample size would become large enough in every case is 3000. 100 was one of the smallest for a *randomly selected* sample, but it would still not necessarily give you valid results. Especially when much of your experience that you're pulling from was not in teaching to begin with. Now, I'm no statistician, but your grasp of the field appears to be even worse than mine, and I consider mine to be only passing, seeing as I only took four courses in college and got a C in one. There are many different calculations to be done to determine adequate sample size, none of which I remember how to do any more. You seem to have either never been exposed to them or forgotten them entirely. Here are some of them: http://www.seattlecrc.org/vbelle/chapters/webchapter2.pdf Here is another great site, since you seem to be so keen on stats all of the sudden. It would be nice for you to bring some real information to the table. http://www.statistics.com/cgi-bin/search/hyperseek.cgi

As to you being bigoted, you admitted that you hate a large class of people, most of whom you have never met. By the dictionary's definition, that is you. It is difficult to take someone seriously when they are so transparently hate-filled. It would be a shame were I to characterize all home-schoolers as being of the same stroke of the brush as you.

[Xenalyte]

But why bother? I'm sure most of us will believe your trashing of us, just because you said so.

Are you trying to say that y'all don't suck? I do not believe it. I mean, such a compelling case has been made for your suckitude . . . (/teasing)

[slambid]

Give up NO MORE GORE ANYMORE; I've been following this thread and ReagansShinyHair is winning by a landslide! Amelia is doing a fine job in handling NO MORE GORE ANYMORE's rantings, also.

[ReagansShinyHair]

"Are you trying to say that y'all don't suck? I do not believe it. I mean, such a compelling case has been made for your suckitude ."

It's just because we're women. I bet we are all on the rag. You know how we get. It's a good thing my school lets me stay home for five days out of each month so that I'm not exposing the kids to my emotional displays and irrationality during that time. Or all the other days when I'm like that just because I'm a woman. Just one more of those benefits of teaching you never knew about. Rag days! :)

Sorry if that was too gross for anyone, but I've about had enough and I thought a little humor would be, you know, humorous.

[SoftballMominVA]

You are right to blame Whole Language.

I use a version of the University of Virginia Word Study program in my classroom. Phonics based.

As a "side-note" UVA is one of the leading universities in researching reading. Guess what they found out?? Direct instruction WORKS!! Whole Language doesn't!

Wow

[Amelia]

Quoting Hitler is perfectly valid - I understood that whoever quotes call the other a nazi first loses. ;~)

Perhaps you are both correct:

Godwin's Law prov.

[Usenet] "As a Usenet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." There is a tradition in many groups that, once this occurs, that thread is over, and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever argument was in progress. Godwin's Law thus practically guarantees the existence of an upper bound on thread length in those groups.

[lonestar]

Where else can you go to work for 6 hours a day, for 9 months a year, and make a decent living. Plus gubmint benefits too.

Is that a fact or your imagination at work?

In TX teachers have 8 hours a day, 10 months a year, and go to school in the summer. I think they have part of their health insurance paid; not sure. And most I know take work home and are expected to be back at night when they're told for parent meetings.

We have plenty of openings if you're qualified and think it's a good deal.

[ReagansShinyHair]

"Give up NO MORE GORE ANYMORE; I've been following this thread and ReagansShinyHair is winning by a landslide! Amelia is doing a fine job in handling NO MORE GORE ANYMORE's rantings, also."

Geez, now she is going to say we are working together and we are bullying and dogpiling. Never mind that I have never even seen your userid before. The facts are irrelevent, it's just what you think it true that matters! :)

We will all "win" when an idea can be discussed rationally and logically by all involved, without namecalling and without hate. I think I'm actually bordering on something like feeding a troll at this point, and I will probably have to pull the plug on this one eventually. I don't see how most anyone can actually go back and read all of these posts.

[ReagansShinyHair]

Good research skills Amelia. I actually tried to look it up before I posted but didn't come across it.

It's a fine line. Hitler was quoted, but not mentioned in the actual conversation as part of the discussion. No person was actually compared to Hitler, so I'm willing to call it "safe".

[ReagansShinyHair]

"You are right to blame Whole Language."

Whole Language was a terrible idea. I think it originated in California, birthplace of many evil teaching practices. They try everything out there first, make sure it doesn't work and inflicts enough damage on the youth of America, then foist it on the rest of the country. I am glad I escaped Kali.

[SoftballMominVA]

Yes it did originate in CA. The idea was to "surround children with the beauty of the language and by osmosis they would grow to love reading and naturally adapt proper grammar and spelling."
Uh huh. The only good whole language did was to inspire a new generation of children's writers to put out some pretty amazing stuff.
Again, one has to sift through the trash like "Heather has Two Mommies" but some stories are awesome like "Olivia" a pig who loves Marie Callas. Too cute!

[Lady Eileen]

I have signed it before.

I'm glad.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

It is too bad that you have not met homeschoolers under better circumstances. Homeschooling is not perfect, and neither are homeschool parents. The difference is that homeschoolers are not supported by taxpayers and do not need to be acoutable to anyone. You would hope that parents would make certain that their children were getting the best education possible. There are bad public school parents and bad homeschool parents. I am certain there are some in your area, there are also good examples. You have just not run accross them yet. But as far as pay goes, well homeschoolers make far less in pay, benefits and perks than teachers do ,and we usually have the same education , hours to work and papers to grade. One big difference is that we don't take money out of the pockets of the taxpayer to do it.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

What random sample. Do you mean working and volunteering in schools, health clinics with school students, and teachers. That is random to you about that when talking about school system and teachers? I would be ashamed to be as closed mind ( proof is in earlier posts) and manipulative( proof is how you ahve twisted and attacked and palced balme) as you are. So, I would be ashamed to be a liberal like you.

So what is the point, we don't like each other, so what... Oh, I must be a bigot then, huh? Because I have never met you.

You have to be the most confused person I have come accross in a great while.

My guess is you are twenty something with a few years on the job, of course no kids. Yes, this is my observation. I only have these past hundred posts to go on, but it is pretty evident to me. Nice try on the stats. I never claimed to do anything other than take one stats class. YOu are the one touting this and that about all of your evidence and numbers. Just remember when you are "teaching" in the future, Just because you are teaching does not mean learning is going on. Whew, you are amazing in your ability for smoke and mirrors. Ilooked it up on dictionary .com. Of course Ann Coulter would get great big fun out of your attempts to be conservative.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

So you have the same agenda as Reagan there. And your point is? I could ping all kinds of homeschoolers and other freepres here to prove my points as well.

But I won't because this isn't high school. If they were interest they would be here.

I won't give up because I am right. I am not as manipulative and cocky as Regan, but I am right. When you two have been in the real world long enough you will see that. After you have paid taxes for a bunch of years, and had kids you will sing a different tune. Let me guess you two have been out of school and away from Mommy and Daddy for what .. three four years now?

[Howlin]

You have been posting on this thread since 1 PM today; who is taking care of your children all this time????

[Amelia]

Are you trying to say that y'all don't suck? I do not believe it. I mean, such a compelling case has been made for your suckitude . . . (/teasing)

Hey, we're the best at whatever we do! ;-)

[Diva Betsy Ross]

I am . I am on a wirless laptop. That is why my posts are posted quickly. I take it with me wherever I go. Out side, inside. Making dinner. Playing on the floor and talking on the phone. I have spent a bit more time today that usual, but these little girls "debating" me has been so interesting I can't stop trying to figure them out. I think I am done now. Thanks for your concern. Kids have been read to given baths, fed snuggled and played with today. I can multitask.