Teachers' poor pay just myth

Scottsdale Republic ^ | Craig J. Cantoni

[hsmomx3]

Contrary to union propaganda, teachers are not underpaid. I say this as someone with 28 years of experience in conducting salary surveys and designing pay plans.

According to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, local elementary school teachers earn about the same average pay on an hourly basis as local reporters ($23.74). They also earn more than microbiologists ($20.60), zoologists ($17.36) and accountants ($22.49). Secondary school teachers even earn more per hour than civil engineers.

[Dead Dog]

I've been pushing her that way. She likes her job, and the pay IS good enough. It just isn't a cush gig.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

DO you work directly with kids in a teaching role? Give me proof of these people and provide me with the data that shows this.

More smoke and mirrors.

[rwfromkansas]

I don't want to coach anything...I wouldn't be able to as well.....lol.

Maybe I should learn since I am going into the history area.

[CyberCowboy777]

If you're talking about the socialism in education,

No I am talking about they way children are taught. The public School system is not the optimal way to teach children, it is the optimal way to get the most students to pass tests at the minimum level.

Which part? Local property taxes, state supplements, or federal government supplements?

All of the above. A Local/State sales tax is the only fair way to tax all citizen for education. Constitutionally set for growth and Controlled by the electorate by a 2/3s majority rule.

I don't know if the federal government needs to, but someone obviously does,...

Try Parents

to an extent it's what the locality wants or is willing to put up with.

Almost always the people that groups with an interest have placed in positions to be elected. Who is the biggest interest group in education? It must be governed locally - school by school with an advisory board from the state made up of generally elected officials. Not appointed and no unionized teachers.

[Dead Dog]

"...better system might be harder"

Actually it would be the opposite. Most teachers are good, everyone remebers the incompetent hacks from childhood. I think we are all in agreement about the system.

In business, you choose your customers, and you do it wisely or you go out of business. Public schools don't..and that is one of the problems.

I don't think you're in a good positoin to accuse a district employee of being an enabler. You're a citizen, it's your government, FIX IT! Make yourself happy. Her job is teaching, not soothing the wounded ego of parents.

[summer]

The only rational reason to teach is that you love doing it

Yes, one has to love teaching to do it -- but, I also believe that is a prerequisite for any type of work. Otherwise, do something else.

[CyberCowboy777]

Quoting Hitler is perfectly valid - I understood that whoever quotes call the other a nazi first loses. ;~)

I find it very interesting when you read Hitler, Stalin and the proponents of our system, they sound very similar. For reason I am sure.

I was not addressing you directly, but making a blanket statement to all who had been part of the discussion.

I am not comparing anyone here to Hitler - only a comparison of systems and goals. I do hope some will question this depraved system, as you and I do.

[ReagansShinyHair]

"Calling more teachers in .. Calling more teachers in. Help help . SOS. Hey everyone this ought to get goo dnow. Just stand clear because rwfromkansas has pinged the profesionals in."

Heaven forbid you should be exposed to any facts they might bring to the discussion. I welcome Cowboy and any others who have rational discourse to add, whatever "side" they are on.

You might want to shut your eyes and stand five feet back from your monitor to prevent discomforting enlightenment.

[CyberCowboy777]

I apologize

I was throwing out relative quotes regarding the system.

I was not claiming your agreement with Stalin.

[Amelia]

yet they still "work" in the system and that makes them at minimum enablers.

Oh yes, and when a woman is raped, it's her fault.

You know, there are good teachers and bad teachers. There are teachers who teach for the summers off, and there are teachers who teach (especially at the elementary level; secondary teachers have to take a fair number of subject courses) because education courses are the only thing they can pass.

The vast majority of teachers I know teach because they love students and they love teaching - it's almost like a "calling" - if you have it, you can do other things, but you'll never be totally happy at another job. Most teachers I know don't like "the system" but it's the only game in town, and they tolerate it so they can do what they love to do.

Some of us, having also worked in the private sector, know that there are good things and bad things with any job. It's just that most jobs aren't as public (being government funded) and personal (dealing with other people's precious children) as teaching is.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

Some people will never "get it" no matter how you try to explain it them. They are rally good at correcting other people's typos, not thinking grand things and solving problems.

I guess we need the minions to go around correcting spelling and typos in this world. It just seems a shame to ahve these be the peopel who are in charge of instilling the love and joy of learning into children.. Now we know what John Gatto is talking about. ( as if we did no tknow it from personal experience) And I have been told by the teachers here that personal experience means nothing. Or at least my personal experience means nothing.

[CyberCowboy777]

I don't think you're in a good positoin to accuse a district employee of being an enabler.

I am in a perfectly good position, possibly the best. I am an outsider with no kids in the system and no take from the government.

I try to fix it, but those that benefit most from the system seem to either agree with it or keep their mouth shut..... We will shine the light of truth on the perpetrators and the enablers, no matter their position or place.

[ReagansShinyHair]

"DO you work directly with kids in a teaching role? Give me proof of these people and provide me with the data that shows this.

More smoke and mirrors."


Whether I work with children or not is completely irrelevent to the statistics and averages that I posted about teachers wages and the average amount of time spent in the classroom.

You see, unlike you, I do not generalize about all teachers based solely on my own personal experiences. I do understand that just because I work extra, that doesn't mean that all other teachers do. However, when I read a national study that has been subject to public review and scrutiny, I WILL base my opinions on that.

[ReagansShinyHair]

"Quoting Hitler is perfectly valid - I understood that whoever quotes call the other a nazi first loses. ;~) "

Ahh, that was it. It's been a while since I've even seen it brought up.

[CyberCowboy777]

Oh yes, and when a woman is raped, it's her fault.

Very bad analogy of my statement. I hope you realize that. I was molested by a stranger in a store bathroom as a child, I know it was not my fault.

If a teacher is not standing up shouting, writing letters to the editor, striking and going to the state capital about the poor state of the system, he/she is an enabler. If so many really love the kids more than the job they would organize a massive strike and force changes. Has that happened anywhere you know of? I fear it is just a job for most, maybe a job they like, maybe they are nice, but just the same, a person doing a job while keeping their mouth shut so as to preserve it. I do not care how hard they work, they work in the system.

That does not make him/her a bad person per say or even a bad teacher. Just a good person doing nothing, like 70% of the rest of the population.

[Amelia]

The public School system is not the optimal way to teach children, it is the optimal way to get the most students to pass tests at the minimum level.

Sometimes it's not even good at that. You're right, though...the thing that amazed me in my education classes is, we always had to take a segment on the history of education. There have been enough studies done that educators know, or should know, which methods work best, but the educrats keep swinging from one fad method to another, rather than taking the best parts from methods that work well. It amazes me.

A Local/State sales tax is the only fair way to tax all citizen for education.

This differs from state to state, but I know that one reason education is supplemented by the state and federal governments is that some localities simply don't have enough money to do it properly.

Try Parents

In a perfect world, that would work. However, some parents don't care what their children have learned or haven't learned, they just want to see good grades on the report card, and for little Johnny or Jill to get a diploma at the end of 12 years. (Yes, I can prove this - there are lawsuits by parents whose child didn't get the 'right' grade, or couldn't graduate because s/he didn't pass the graduation test, final exam, whatever.)

You also run up against the problem you stated about who runs the schools.

Almost always the people that groups with an interest have placed in positions to be elected. Who is the biggest interest group in education? It must be governed locally - school by school with an advisory board from the state made up of generally elected officials.

Again, where I live, the school board is elected locally. I don't know about your area. One way to change education where you are would be to run for school board, however. Just a suggestion.

[ReagansShinyHair]

"I apologize"

Totally ok. You seem rational and well-thought-out, so I would assume you have a reason for most of what you say. I'm glad I'm not Stalin. :)

[Amelia]

Maybe I should learn since I am going into the history area.

Around here, it's a lot easier to get a job as a social studies teacher if you can coach. Lots of social studies majors, not much demand for them except as teachers.

You could also consider adding another type certification, such as special ed., but then you might never get to teach history. ;-)

[Dead Dog]

So, your calling woman who votes Republican, demands responsibilty from children, and teaches core conservative values an enabler for taking a pay check for her work.

And now your talking smack know about holding her accountable.

Sir or Mam, You're out of line.

[CyberCowboy777]

lol

I am actually quite fond of quotes, they provide a perspective and a reality of where we have been. Hitler and Stalin were always blunt in their ambitions and those that prescribe to their ideologies cannot help but sound like them.

"Most of all, perhaps, we need an intimate knowlege of the past. Not that the past has anything magical about it, but we cannot study the future."
- C.S. Lewis