Tax 'Fairness' Feud Rages On

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL ^ | Wednesday, June 11, 2003 | SHAILAGH MURRAY

[presidio9]

What's fair when it comes to tax policy and low-income people?

Congress hasn't figured it out yet, as the fight to extend the child tax credit to more low-income people shows. No matter how the issue is resolved, there will be more rancor ahead, as Republicans and Democrats increasingly use the tax code to deliver benefits to their voter bases: Democrats try to steer funds to their low-income constituents; Republicans aim to ensure middle- and upper-income people don't pay a disproportionate share of taxes.

[THE POLELOCK]

IF you do not pay any Income Tax, that is what you get
back (Nothing) any one can understsnd this except a
DUMBACRAT

[presidio9]

Any other policy is not-so-cleverly-disguised welfare.

[ctlpdad]

Flat tax for all! (1%)

[fooman]

Its not quite so simple and Rush is missing a HUGH point. This is a small, effiently administered subsidy to get people working, expecting to work to move up the income ladder.

Welfare gets one out of the work mode. So its a big win in order not to raise the minimum wage.

Rush outta live the lifestyle of a poor person for a year with their assets and wages. Then he might get more creative on how to help more work their way out of poverty.

[Fighter@heart]

This little "tid-bit" was sent to me the other day & it really makes it's point. How difficult can this be? You DON'T pay INTO, therefore you GET NOTHING back!

A young teenage girl was about to finish her first year of college. She considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat but her father was a rather staunch Republican.
One day she was challenging her father on his beliefs and his opposition to taxes and welfare programs. He stopped her and asked her how she was doing in school.
She answered that she had a 4.0 GPA but it was really tough. She had to study all the time, never had time to go out and party. She didn't have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many college friends because of spending all her time studying.
He asked, "How is your friend Mary." She replied that Mary was barely getting by. She had a 2.0 GPA, never studied, but was very popular on campus, went to all the parties all the time. Why she often didn't show up for classes because she was hung over.
Dad then asked his daughter why she didn't go to the Dean's office and ask why she couldn't take 1.0 off her 4.0 and give it to her friend who only had a 2.0. That way they would both have a 3.0 GPA.
The daughter angrily fired back, "That wouldn't be fair, I worked really hard for mine and Mary has done nothing".
The father slowly smiled and said, "Welcome to the Republican Party".

[DakotaGator]

What's fair when it comes to tax policy and low-income people?

Nothing.

There in nothing fair about any income tax. It is immoral. It makes us, regardless of level of income, slaves to the state. Not only is "income tax" built on the concept of "all money belongs to the state", but it is also built on the requirement that "the citizen (slave) has no right to privacy".

There is no way to make an income tax fair. It is immoral. It is un-American. And the founding fathers despised it so much, they made it un-Constitutional.

[fooman]

good point..

[LizardQueen]

Personally, I favor a modified flat tax. Give every wage earner the same whopping "food-shelter-clothing" deduction and then take a flat 1% or whatever off everything above that.

My rationale - no one should have to pay income tax on subsistence income as it discourages work and encourages giving up and going on welfare.

Make the deduction the same across the country - use the average cost of living for all states. No exemptions for mortgages, kids, etc. - whatever you do with your money after the gov't takes it's (preferably very small) cut is your business and yours alone.

It'll never happen.....
LQ

[fooman]

not a bad plan at all. I am happy to give up my mortgage deduction.

[LizardQueen]

I'd give up mine too, if they instituted this. Why should apartment dwellers subsidize my mortgage? Why should my sister's family (sis is a stay-at-home mom) subsidize other women's daycare use?

I'm tired of social engineering via the tax code. Time to get the gov't to take it's small cut and then butt the heck out.

LQ

[DakotaGator]

Personally, I favor a modified flat tax. Give every wage earner the same whopping "food-shelter-clothing" deduction and then take a flat 1% or whatever off everything above that.

It's a good plan. Though I don't trust Washington with any income tax powers.

What I'd rather see is a national retail sales tax administered by the States (10% total load, 5% retained by state 5% to feds). And the States send the money to the Federal government. That'd go a long way towards restoring the balance between states' rights and federal authority. It would also become the basis for starving the federal beast back down to its constitutional functions.

Regarding your food-shelter-clothing point; food would be exempt from sales tax, shelter isn't part of sales tax, and I don't have a solution for clothing.

But my plan won't happen either. Politicians would have to give up too much power.

[blackdog]

It's not social engineering anymore. It's one of two things.

The first is just pure and simple voter procurement. If I can work some dopey $15/hour job and get a raise courtesy of the gubmint tax code to earn in effect $18/hour, I think I'd vote for the guy who did that for me courtesy of the tax code. My boss sure is not going to give me that raise.

The second is the fact that schools and media sources no longer educate the public on facts. They preach/teach emotion, feelings, fairness, and do nothing to educate the average person about how their system works. As a result legislation is written like a remedial effort. Knowing the public has no clue how to understand drafted legislation(or the attention span, or has a media who will report just the facts) our congressional staffers draft the legislation in a manner that makes it the equivelant of constitutional "Dick and Jane Reader" legislation.

This eliminates the need for critical thinking and just hands the whole issue over to Oprah and Hillary for "story time to the public".

[Blood of Tyrants]

When Queasy Mfume (whatEVER) asked, "What about people who don't pay taxes? Are they going to get a tax cut, too?", the Republican response should have immediately been, "Absolutely! People who pay no taxes are going to get a 100% tax cut!"

And then let the moron try to figue that out.

[Free the USA]

http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/bump-list

[ApesForEvolution]

Hmmm...no income, and you receive handouts. More income and you pay a higher percentage. The best solution is for the producers to stop participating in this fraudulent system until it is corrected.

[Lady Eileen]

I'm tired of social engineering via the tax code. Time to get the gov't to take it's small cut and then butt the heck out.

Exactly.

[CyberSpartacus]

Rush did live the life of a poor person. I have lived the life of a poor person. The reason that others I know are still poor is because they have not taken responsiblity for their life.

[LizardQueen]

If I can work some dopey $15/hour job and get a raise courtesy of the gubmint tax code to earn in effect $18/hour, I think I'd vote for the guy who did that for me courtesy of the tax code.

I'm trying to remember that quote that goes something like "a democracy will fail when > 50% of the populace can vote themselves largesse from the Federal Treasury". That's exactly the problem.

If it doesn't get fixed soon it never will, as the portion of the population on handouts seems to increase every year. I'm not holding my breath.

LQ

[fooman]

I dont think Rush was ever really down and out. I remember him saying he was unemployed and read a 'book a day'.


Responsibilty is taught. I have seen it. I have also started from modest means, made it ok and now am going through a rough patch.

One forgets and its easier to have not, then to have then have less.