Posted on 06/06/2003 9:11:34 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP
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AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Friday, June 6, 2003
Austin Mayor Gus Garcia preserved his 4-3 majority Thursday night to install a strict new smoking ban in the city's restaurants, bars and music venues.
The proposal would still allow smoking in billiard halls, bingo parlors and meeting halls for fraternal organizations.
But Garcia and other supporters of the ordinance narrowly dodged an exception that would allow smoking cigarettes in bars and music clubs. Owners of such establishments had warned that a ban might cut into business at a difficult economic time.
"I think it's very clear there will be an economic impact," Council Member Raul Alvarez said. Referring to clubs that have vanished from Austin's music scene in recent years, he added, "I know we're all very sensitive about not losing any more Liberty Lunches and Electric Lounges."
But health groups discounted the financial fears and said the proposal was needed to protect workers and patrons from secondhand smoke.
"Almost 25 percent of the U.S. population now lives in places that already have ordinances like this in place," said Ken Pfluger, chairman of the Tobacco-Free Austin Coalition, a group of health organizations that has led the charge for a total ban. "All the evidence points to the fact that business does not deteriorate."
The ordinance does not take effect until Sept. 1, meaning a new council might still have time to overturn it. Council Member Will Wynn, who voted against the ordinance, will soon become mayor, replacing Garcia, who steps down next month. Saturday's runoff election to replace Wynn pits Brewster McCracken, who opposes the regulations, against Margot Clarke, who favors them.
Wynn said he expects the next council to take the ordinance up again. The council also formed a task force to report back on the issue in August.
"As we saw late tonight, there's still a lot of definitional confusion," Wynn said.
It was far from certain that the exemption for bars would fail. Council Member Danny Thomas, a member of the 4-3 majority that endorsed the ordinance in two preliminary votes, made it known this week that he would not oppose a measure exempting bars from a ban.
Alvarez proposed the exemption, which would have allowed smoking in establishments that earn more than 51 percent of their quarterly income from alcohol. But Thomas said that might still force diners sitting near a restaurant bar to breathe secondhand smoke.
"I said bars," Thomas said, adding that he couldn't find a way to narrow the definition. "I wanted (tobacco-free) restaurants. I made that very clear."
Garcia originally proposed a total ban to avoid charges that the ordinance would give bars an advantage attracting smokers.
Such arguments re-emerged Thursday night. Bob Cole, a radio talk show host who owns Hill's Café in South Austin, showed up to argue against an ordinance that would target restaurants but not bars.
"It's third reading," Cole said, adopting the council jargon for a final vote. "That's way new."
Another pitfall opened up Thursday when the council received a letter from an Austin lawyer representing the East Sixth Street Community Association, a group of business owners, property owners and residents.
The letter stopped short of threatening a lawsuit. But it said six issues made the ordinance unfair or illegal, including inconsistencies with state law and discriminatory exemptions.
"At issue here is not whether smoking tobacco is 'good' or 'bad.' What is at issue here is the extent to which the city may dictate to its citizens what is good or bad for them," wrote Jennifer Riggs, the association's lawyer. She added, "The issue here is over far more than smoking."
But proponents of a ban rejected the notion that the ordinance could be overturned in court.
"It's been done in so many places before," Pfluger said.
Council members also met a fresh lobbyist in Mike Sheffield, president of the Austin Police Association. He said he told some council members Thursday that the ban would be difficult to enforce and would throw police in the middle of a fight that's left strong feelings on both sides.
"I have an incredible visual," echoed Council Member Jackie Goodman, an opponent of the ordinance. "911, there's a smoker."
sscheibal@statesman.com; 445-3819
That's going to be one rich Indian tribe, let me tell you.
JUST FOR THE RECORD, I SMOKE CIGARETTES.
Except the return per square foot on a slot machine is far greatet.
Actually if that happens, I'm gonna be very rich. I plan on opening up a bar someday(quite possibly outside of a city). There also will be smoking there in some sections. If it's illegal, damn. I don't know about it.
No, I'm not. The statement was that since Houston has implimented a smoking ban in malls; business had declined. I stated that the exact opposite had, in fact, occured. Considering the timing of the anti-smoking decision, and the present economy; smokers would have us believe that things would go down. Factually, retail sales have gone up.
I'm an ex-smoker. I could manage to go several hours between nicotine fits. Not smoking during your meal will not kill you, and not smoking while you shop doen't hurt too much either. I sincerely doubt you would buy clothes at full retail price that have either been saturated by cigarette smoke, or damaged by a cigarette. I also doubt you enjoy the smell of stale smoke. You can still smoke, but you can't demand the right to pollute everyone else's air in a confined space.
The fact is we don't demand that.
We would LIKE to demand that the property owner be allowed to make that decision.
I'm not sure where you got the idea that we, on this forum, have demanded to be able to smoke anywhere, anytime, any way we want to.
If you can find that statement on a past thread, from an admitted smoker, on this forum, I will personally send you a $10 money order.
Show me the statement, FReepmail me your address, and the money is yours.
Think about it, minion.
The only place where a smoker can go drink, gamble, and smoke at the same time.
A lock on the smoking, drinking, gambling population in the area. That's from 1/4 of the total population.
THAT'S some money.
This list is a joke!!!!!
Acetone - A flammable, colorless liquid used as a solvent. It's one of the active ingredients in nail polish remover. The tobacco industry refuses to say how acetone gets into cigarettes.
Nail Polish Remover!!!! If it's so toxic than every women whoever changed nail colors would suffer serious health problems. Acetone is also used on eggs and used to extract spices So if we are to ban smoking in bars because of Acetone than we must ban them from cooking eggs or using any spices on their food.
Ammonia - A colorless, pungent gas. The tobacco industry says that it adds flavor, but scientists have discovered that ammonia helps you absorb more nicotine - keeping you hooked on smoking.
Ammonia is also used for cleaning, Ammonia is also naturally produced in our body and is often sweated out. If we are to ban smoking because ETS contains Ammonia than we also must ban bars/restaurants from ever cleaning their floors and we must prohibit the room temperature from ever getting to warm.
Arsenic - A silvery-white very poisonous chemical element. This deadly poison is used to make insecticides, and it is also used to kill gophers and rats.
Arsenic is a heavy metal that is found in trace amounts in almost all water drinking or otherwise.
Tobacco like all plants needs water to grow so any plant will contain trace amounts Arsenic, So if we are to ban smoking in bars/restaurants because of Arsenic than we must also ban them from serving anything with water (and since all plants used water to grow all fruits and vegetables must be also banned to.
Benzene - A flammable liquid obtained from coal tar and used as a solvent. This cancer-causing chemical is used to make everything from pesticides to detergent to gasoline.
Benzene is in gasoline and it takes 4695 cigarettes smoked just to equal 1 gallon of gas burned.(I will do the math for you at the end of this post). So just the fact that cars spewing exhaust are pulling up to or just driving by the place guarantees benzene will be in the air. If we are going to ban smoking in bars/restaurants because ETS contains Benzene than we have to ban cars and trucks from ever getting anywhere near them.
Benzoapyrene - A yellow crystalline carcinogenic hydrocarbon found in coal tar and cigarette smoke. It's one of the most potent cancer-causing chemicals in the world.
One of the most potent cancer causing chemicals in the world huh? If we are going to ban smoking in bars because ETS contains Benzopyrene than we have to ban the burning of EVERYTHING!!! NO more internal combustion engines, No more fireplaces, No more Candles and NO more cooking of any food. All bars/restaurants must now only serve Raw food. Every organic compound in the universe that is burned releases Benzoapyrene.
Butane - A hydrocarbon used as a fuel. Highly flammable butane is one of the key ingredients in gasoline.
Found in Gasoline again. But notice no toxic properties are listed, The reason is IT ain't toxic.
It Also found in natural gas so if So if we are to ban smoking in bars/restaurants because of Butane than we must ban them from frying any foods. Butane is also used as a propellant in many aerosol cans so they must be banned to, Dam the ozone layer lets go back to using CFCs.
Cadmium - A metallic chemical element used in alloys. This toxic metal causes damage to the liver, kidneys, and the brain; and stays in your body for years.
Same as Arsenic above, Though this one is found in also in milk so we also must ban that
Formaldehyde - A colorless pungent gas used in solution as a disinfectant and preservative. It causes cancer; damages your lungs, skin and digestive system. Embalmers use it to preserve dead bodies.
If we are going to ban smoking in bars because ETS contains Formaldehyde than we must also ban alcohol because when your body breaks down alcohol the main breakdown product is Formaldehyde which along with it being broken down in your liver you do expel an amount of it in your breath and sweat. You also produce formaldehyde for many other bodily functions
And I really hope these non-alcoholic bars/restaurants aren't in a place that is to hot or to cold because formaldehyde is used to make insulation so that must be also banned
Lead - A heavy bluish-gray metallic chemical element. This toxic heavy metal causes lead poisoning, which stunts your growth, and damages your brain. It can easily kill you.
Same as Arsenic above
Propylene Glycol - A sweet hygroscopic viscous liquid used as antifreeze and as a solvent in brake fluid. The tobacco industry claims they add it to keep cheap "reconstituted tobacco" from drying out, but scientists say it aids in the delivery of nicotine (tobaccos active drug) to the brain.
You have got to be kidding with this one. Propylene Glycol is harmless, It's used in many if not most cosmetic products, If we are going to ban smoking in bars because ETS contains Propylene Glycol than we have to ban all customers and employees who enter a bar from ever shampooing their hair. (Go look at the ingredients on the bottle of your shampoo)
Turpentine - A colorless volatile oil. Turpentine is very toxic and is commonly used as a paint thinner.
If we are going to ban smoking in bars because ETS contains turpentine than of course we must ban all bars/restaurants from using or staining wood because it also releases turpentine and of course any pine trees that are anywhere near a bars/restaurant must come down.
So to be consistent, If we are to ban smoking in bars\restaurants because of all the nasty things you listed than to be consistent we have to ban all the others. So the only way a bar or restaurant should be allowed to open is if
Serves nothing to drink not even water, The building can't be made of wood or contain any insulation of any kind and must be in the middle of a field with no trees around it and can never be cleaned and of course everybody must walk to it and neither you or the staff can wash themselves before going in and the only thing they can serve is Yogurt. Sounds like fun.
Cigarettes vs Gasoline
Both gasoline exhaust and cigarettes smoke are the end release of the burning of organic materials they are pretty much the same. Yes cigarette smoke contains a small amount of nicotine, but nicotine by itself is harmless. If nicotine were dangerous than people would be dying from eating anything with Tomatoes, Potatoes or Eggplant since each contain nicotine.
Actually gasoline is much worse because it contains all kinds of nasty stuff (like MTBE) where as Tobacco like most plants is mostly made up of cellulose but for the sake of this argument let's assume they are the same.
The big difference of course is the weight, Cigarettes are relatively light compared to gasoline and gasoline in a car is burned at a much greater rate that a smoker burns a cigarette.
Simple Algebra
Weight of One Gallon of Water = 8.37lb
In Grams 8.37/0.0022 = 3797 Grams
Specific Gravity of Gasoline = 0.7420 (https://constmail.gov.state.md.us/comar/03/03.03.06.03.htm)
Weight of one Gallon of Gasoline
3797 * 0.7490 = 2817 grams
Weight of cigarette (Not including the filter) =0.8 grams (Maximum)
Number of cigarettes needed to equal the weight of one gallon of gasoline.
2817 / 0.8 = 3521
So it would take 3521 cigarettes burned to equal just 1 gallon of gas burned.
And of course that’s a very, very low number because for one it is assuming the people smoking smoke the whole cigarette and don’t inhale anything and instead the entire cigarette when burned was released as second hand smoke. I have heard many different estimates on how much of cigarette smoke % wise is absorbed into the body vs released as second hand smoke.
I have heard 90% absorbed -10% released, 70-30% but I will take the lowest I can find at 25% Absorbed and 75% released.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8558049&dopt=Abstract
Which will make it
3521/0.75 = 4695 cigarettes smoked to equal 1 gallon of gas
To put that number in perspective if your car gets 20mpg and you are traveling a 60 mph you are releasing about 4 cigarettes worth of pollution every second!!!! And that number is much higher when you are stuck in traffic at a toll booth or when you start and stop when parking your car or just when idling when your MPG is much lower.
More number Crunching - The average American uses 16 Gallons of gas per week which of course means every American including the anti-smoking Nazis are releasing
16 * 4529 = 75,120 cigarettes worth of pollution per week just by driving,
It would take a pack a day smoker
75120/20/365 = 10.3 years to equal the pollution released in one week by the average driver.
Smokers my constitute a minority of the population as a whole but if you've ever been to a bar, smokers are definately in the majority of peole who patronize these establishments.
People who are overly concerned with their health tend to avoid bars on principle. Drinking in a bar is not a very healthy activity despite the smoke.
If it were nto for slot players who smoke my vacations to Las Vegas would be far more expensive. Thanks.
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