[Sonny M]

Bizarre, considering that George Washington used refer to muslims as the infidels.

[Bikers4Bush]

The muslims can kiss my behind. They can have france but they won't get the U.S.

[backhoe]

Said it before,
Say it again...

Over my dead body.

[SJackson]

If you'd like to be on or off this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

[RLK]

The Mohammedan religion, which is nothing but a collection of crackpot psychotics, is making far too many inroads and wielding far too much influence in this country.

[OpusatFR]

My ~forebears~ kicked y'all out of Spain and Sicily and then came here.

Guess we can do it again.

[Kenton]

Perhaps African-Americans can celebrate the role the Muslims had in them coming to America in the first place, like the Muslim traders in Africa who provided the human fodder for the slave trade.

Other than that WE HAVE NO MUSLIM FOREBEARS!

[ClearCase_guy]

Christ: "Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. Render unto God that which is God's."
Islam: "It all about Allah. Your secular gov't has no place in our world."

Mmmmmmm. Maybe we don't share their values.

[Alouette]

[LoneRangerMassachusetts]

Islam is the only religion in the world that has a set of detailed legal directives for the ordering of societies, and Muslims around the world are pressing hard in numerous countries to put those directives into practice.

If as Karl Mark said, "Religion is the opiate of the masses," he surely must have been thinking of the Christian and Jewish realm. He should have added, Islam is the crack version run by drug lords.

[DonQ]

I've been trying to remember all the Moslems who did anything significant in American history. So far all I can recall is Sirhan Sirhan. Can anyone name more??

[Publius6961]

Forgive me if I am somewhat hesitant to jump on this bandwagon.

LOL! As soon as I stop laughing, I will give you my take on it

Well... now that I think of it.

The sandmaggots did invent the stargate into alternate universes.
They've just been keeping it secret.

[yoe]

Through out the ages, man made dogma has spread darkness instead of light; has crippled nations and killed its people; spread fear, hate and racism; has stopped development, the growth of nations except for the titular heads appointed by the few. I believe Islam is one of those dogmas with its tenants of oppression and demands of obedience for its members. Judeo-Christian values are those of the Ten Commandants – the laws of humanity, not the religion of humanity. Islam is a far cry from those laws in the unyielding demand for complete compliance to archaic and uncivilized rules laid down to hold people in bondage.

Our founding Fathers knew of such oppressors and their machiavellian ways and set about closing the door on such evils. I would not trust nor vote for any person with Islam in their background. Western Culture left that penalizing sub-culture long, long ago.

[DoctorMichael]

Let's face it, one of the hallmarks of the Muslim milieu is their societal and religious sanction to lie; and when confronted with their lie to create a lie to try and cover up their previous lie.

Western society on the other hand, as described by Fukuyama in his recent book TRUST, is based on antithetical principles.

[Humvee]

Them there JCI's can KMA!

[LiteKeeper]

read later

[ishmac]

One thing that has stood out in the past few months is the inveterate prevarication of so many Muslims, from those in the so-called street, to those at the highest levels (eg Baghdad Bob, Al-Jazeerah, et al.). I recently found out that this prevarication is systematic and has a name: ketman. Czeslaw Milosz (Nobel Prize in Literature, 1980) saw many parallels between the systematic deception in socialist societies and that practiced in Islamic countries. He details the parallels in his 1953 book, The Captive Mind. It's a book I highly recommend..

Did a quick search of the web and came up with this summary of Milosz's discussion:

Milosz gives this practice [systematic mendacity] a name, Ketman, which, he says, is 'To say something is white when it is black, to smile inwardly when one is outwardly solemn, to hate when one manifests love, to know when one pretends not to know, and thus to play one's adversary for a fool (even as he is playing you for one).' (The Captive Mind, Penguin, Harmondsworth, 1985 (1953, p 57.) He derives the name "Ketman" from a practice of deception in Islamic societies described by Gobineau during the last century: 'He who is in possession of truth must not expose his person, his relatives or his reputation to the blindness, the folly, the perversity of those whom it has pleased God to place and maintain in error.' The necessity of this practice derived, Gobineau suggested, from the extreme sanctions applicable under religious fundamentalism to those who strayed from orthodoxy.

Extending the idea to socialist totalitarianism, Milosz describes a number of different varieties of Ketman, including National Ketman, to espouse belief in the centrality of Russian socialism while secretly remaining attached to your own national culture; Ketman of Revolutionary Purity, to practice modes of revolutionary rigour, such as the ruthless elimination of weak human links in the ideological chain, while secretly believing in ordinary human values and sometimes even practising them; aesthetic Ketman, to infiltrate into your novels, poems or paintings hidden humanist symbols and messages while apparently expressing loyal Party social realism; and professional Ketman, to practice Party science or art, which imposed a political line on reality, attending the right conferences and gatherings in order to announce this, while secretly practicing real art and science in the privacy of the laboratory or study.

We've got a choice example here of jounalistic Ketman aimed at citizens of a country that has not yet submitted to Islam. Of course the practice of Ketman described by Milosz happens within the socialist sphere (the dar al-Islam). The Ketman in your post is practiced by those in the dar al-Harb, or world of war. Its practitioners are hardly gentile humanists trying to preserve a vestige of civilization in a hostile regime. They're vicious propogandists who want to manipulate public opinion. It reminds me of the Nuclear Freeze folks from back in the Cold War. But art of prevarication is the same. The roots of the practice go back to the Middle Ages, almost to the origins of Islam. I just found it interesting that systematic deception is so well established in the Muslim world that it has a name. There are even various types that can be categorized.

[sharktrager]

How many bears?

4?

What about all the other bears?

[Im Your Huckleberry]

CAIR can eat sh!t. The f@#! I'll ever say any such thing.

"Muslim forebears"? Are they smoking crack? Who? Which "forebears". This is a joke. Another not-so-subtle attempt by CAIR to provide a shield for the Islamofascist hordes invading our country.

I notice Bush has yet to do a thing about our borders, and immigration from Islamofascist nations is still continuing.

To which I ask, "Why"?

[appalachian_dweller]

>> If someone does this [rejects Islam], then it is the duty of Islam to fight him until either he is killed or until he declares his submission <<

>> Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth. <<

Over my dead body as well. Lock and Load!