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Pride Before The Fall (Horowitz Sticks it to the Fundies!)
FrontPage Magazine ^ | 5/20/03 | David Horowitz

Posted on 05/20/2003 8:14:33 AM PDT by theoverseer

In four Gospels - including the Sermon on the Mount - Jesus neglected to mention the subject of homosexuality. But that hasn’t stopped a handful of self-appointed leaders of the so-called Religious Right from deciding that it is an issue worth the presidency of the United States. In what the Washington Times described as a "stormy session" last week, the Rev. Lou Sheldon, Paul Weyrich, Gary Bauer and eight other "social conservatives" read the riot act to RNC chairman Marc Racicot for meeting with the "Human Rights Campaign," a group promoting legal protections for homosexuals. This indiscretion, they said, "could put Bush’s entire re-election campaign in jeopardy."

According to the Times’ report by Ralph Hallow, the RNC chairman defended himself by saying, "You people don’t want me to meet with other folks, but I meet with anybody and everybody." To this Gary Bauer retorted, "That can’t be true because you surely would not meet with the leaders of the Ku Klux Klan."

Nice analogy Gary. Way to love thy neighbor.

This demand to quarantine a political enemy might have had more credibility if the target – the Campaign for Human Rights -- were busily burning crosses on social conservatives’ lawns. But they aren’t. Moreover, the fact that it is, after all, crosses the Ku Klux Klan burns, might suggest a little more humility on the part of Christians addressing these issues. Just before the launching of the 2000 presidential campaign, George Bush himself was asked about similarly mean-spirited Republican attacks. His response was that politicians like him weren’t elected to pontificate about other people’s morals and that his own faith admonished him to take the beam out of his own eye before obsessing over the mote in someone else’s.

The real issue here is tolerance of differences in a pluralistic society. Tolerance is different from approval, but it is also different from stigmatizing and shunning those with whom we disagree.

I say this as someone who is well aware that Christians are themselves a persecuted community in liberal America, and as one who has stood up for the rights of Christians like Paul Weyrich and Gary Bauer to have their views, even when I have not agreed with some of their agendas. Not long ago, I went out on a public limb to defend Paul Weyrich when he was under attack by the Washington Post and other predictable sources for a remark he had made that was (reasonably) construed as anti-Semitic. I defended Weyrich because I have known him to be a decent man without malice towards Jews and I did not want to see him condemned for a careless remark. I defended him in order to protest the way in which we have become a less tolerant and more mean-spirited culture than we were.

I have this to say to Paul: A delegation to the chairman of the RNC to demand that he have no dialogue with the members of an organization for human rights is itself intolerant, and serves neither your ends nor ours. You told Racicot, "if the perception is out there that the party has accepted the homosexual agenda, the leaders of the pro-family community will be unable to help turn out the pro-family voters. It won’t matter what we say; people will leave in droves."

This is disingenuous, since you are a community leader and share the attitude you describe. In other words, what you are really saying is that if the mere perception is that the Republican Party has accepted the "homosexual agenda," you will tell your followers to defect with the disastrous consequences that may follow. As a fellow conservative, I do not understand how in good conscience you can do this. Are you prepared to have President Howard Dean or President John Kerry preside over our nation’s security? Do you think a liberal in the White House is going to advance the agendas of social conservatives? What can you be thinking?

In the second place, the very term "homosexual agenda," is an expression of intolerance as well. Since when do all homosexuals think alike? In fact, thirty percent of the gay population voted Republican in the last presidential election. This is a greater percentage than blacks, Hispanics or Jews. Were these homosexuals simply deluded into thinking that George Bush shared their agendas? Or do they perhaps have agendas that are as complex, diverse and separable from their sexuality as women, gun owners or Christians, for that matter?

In your confusion on these matters, you have fallen into the trap set for you by your enemies on the left. It is the left that insists its radical agendas are the agendas of blacks and women and gays. Are you ready to make this concession -- that the left speaks for these groups, for minorities and "the oppressed?" Isn’t it the heart of the conservative argument that liberalism (or, as I would call it, leftism) is bad doctrine for all humanity, not just white Christian males?

If the President’s party – or conservatism itself -- is to prevail in the political wars, it must address the concerns of all Americans and seek to win their hearts and minds. It is conservative values that forge our community and create our coalition, and neither you nor anyone else has - or should have - a monopoly in determining what those values are.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 1stamendment; 2004election; 2006election; 2008election; 2010election; 2012election; 2014election; 2016election; 2ndamendment; antichristians; banglist; bauer; billoreilly; catholiclist; davidhorowitz; election2004; election2006; election2008; election2010; election2012; election2014; election2016; firstamendment; friendsofbill; frontpage; fundies; gaykkk; guncontrol; homonazi; homosexualagenda; homosexuality; horowitz; kentucky; kimdavis; kitty; lavendermafia; libertarians; logcabinrepublican; logcabinrepublicans; medicalmarijuana; prop8; proposition8; secondamendment; sodomandgomorrah; sodomgomorrah; viking; vikingkitty; weyrich; zot
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To: eastsider
Thanks for posting your opinions. Please enjoy your Pyrrhic victory in 2004.

Compromise with evil = evil.
461 posted on 05/20/2003 3:34:37 PM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: tdadams
I can't say for sure, I haven't read the book.

You said in post post 437

I did read the book...
So which is it?

But call me crazy, something about the vocabulary of her summary leads me to believe that she's sensationalizing the book a bit.

Something about the results of a search on this book tell me the author is accurately representing the book. And I just ordered a copy from Bolerium Books. I collect similar books so I can demonstrate folks like yourself make statements without any supporting evidence.

You also said

Her summations are, how to say it, a bit propagandistic.
So now we see you have nothing to base that on. You haven't read the book so you just make it up as you go.
462 posted on 05/20/2003 3:35:40 PM PDT by scripter
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To: colorado tanker
"I don't know that we have any big disagreement,..."

I've never let that get in the way of a good argument. ;-)

"...although I look at the present state of affairs with more optimism than you, apparently."

Well, I'm not living in Cuba. So I got that going for me, which is nice. ;-)

"I thought the "social contract" types would have been jolted by the rise of Hitler to power, WWII and the Holocaust, done by proper procedure or agreement of the people, but grossly violative of the natural rights of millions. The only principled way to critique that regime was from a natural rights point of view."

D-oh! Weren't you arguing *for* social contract, versus natural rights? If you weren't, my bad.
463 posted on 05/20/2003 3:38:01 PM PDT by Mark Bahner
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To: Trace21230
Thanks to the temper tantrums of some conservatives who insist on 100% purity on certain wedge issues, whole communities have to suffer under the corrupt administrations of RAT politicians such as Parris Glendening, Gray Davis, and Janet Napolitano.
464 posted on 05/20/2003 3:38:52 PM PDT by Kuksool
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To: BibChr
Horowitz, Tammy Bruce, and Andrew Sullivan are all goofballs that came over from the left.
These people are only 'conservative' when it fits their needs.
Peel back the first layer and you just find a shallow, confused, selfish and hateful person.
465 posted on 05/20/2003 3:39:31 PM PDT by CMClay
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To: Mark Bahner
D-oh! Weren't you arguing *for* social contract, versus natural rights? If you weren't, my bad.

No, I'm a natural rights advocate. Perhaps my computer was not properly expressing my thoughts; it does that sometimes. :)

466 posted on 05/20/2003 3:41:29 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: Kuksool
"Thanks to the temper tantrums of some conservatives who insist on 100% purity on certain wedge issues, whole communities have to suffer under the corrupt administrations of RAT politicians such as Parris Glendening, Gray Davis, and Janet Napolitano."

Yup. The same "logic" espoused by the extreme right seems to control their ability to make smart politic decisions.

In other words, it is hopeless idiocy.

Trace
467 posted on 05/20/2003 3:43:10 PM PDT by Trace21230 (Ideal MOAB test site: Paris)
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To: Mark Bahner
I can work with the baseball analogy, but from the batter's box, not from the on-deck circle. Swinging from the batter's box is always ordered towards making contact with the ball, whether the hitter makes contact or not. Likewise with coitus: it's always ordered toward procreation, whether procreation results or not.
468 posted on 05/20/2003 3:43:20 PM PDT by eastsider (The on-deck circle is foreplay.)
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To: colorado tanker
"No, I'm a natural rights advocate."

Oh! Wasn't somebody somewhere advocating for social contract? (Maybe I cut/pasted from your post, quoting someone else's post?)

In any case, maybe the problem is my not having had dinner, yet. So I better sign off.

Best wishes,
Mark
469 posted on 05/20/2003 3:45:16 PM PDT by Mark Bahner
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To: B-Chan
What Pyrrhic victory?
470 posted on 05/20/2003 3:46:05 PM PDT by eastsider
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To: Mark Bahner
I don't know if this thread did this or not, but I'm going to a steakhouse for my ration of red meat tonight. :)
471 posted on 05/20/2003 3:48:10 PM PDT by colorado tanker
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To: eastsider
"I can work with the baseball analogy, but from the batter's box, not from the on-deck circle."

It can't be the batter's box...it has to be the on-deck circle. Other than in National Enquirer (and one really aggressive fertility clinic), no 60+ year-old woman has ever had a child.
472 posted on 05/20/2003 3:50:19 PM PDT by Mark Bahner
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To: B-Chan
"Compromise with evil = evil."

LOL. "Evil," eh?

If you think the Republican party is "evil," why do you post on a site where most people are Republicans?

Is it some sort of religious self-hatred you have going?

I'm curious.

Trace
473 posted on 05/20/2003 3:50:52 PM PDT by Trace21230 (Ideal MOAB test site: Paris)
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To: scripter
Sorry, make that... "I did read the link"

You weren't just being captious were you?

474 posted on 05/20/2003 3:53:49 PM PDT by tdadams
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To: scripter
So now we see you have nothing to base that on. You haven't read the book so you just make it up as you go.

Are you seriously going to be this obtuse? In your little world, am I not permitted to surmise conclusions based on what I've seen. Do you not think the woman's summations were a bit sensationalistic?

No, you probably don't. You probably think she's completely evenhanded and unbiased, just like you! < /sarcasm>

475 posted on 05/20/2003 3:57:34 PM PDT by tdadams
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To: Mark Bahner
We're clearly not talking the same language. In my world, coitus is coitus, regardless of whether one of the adults is infertile.

Enjoy your dinner. As for me, I'm off to watch the Yankees beat the Red Sox again. (Thanks for the reminder : )

476 posted on 05/20/2003 3:57:40 PM PDT by eastsider
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To: Mike K
David needs to point his attention to the first book of Romans, it will clear up his confusion.
477 posted on 05/20/2003 4:02:26 PM PDT by BOOTSTICK
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To: Mark Bahner
I doubt if I can convince either you or those with whom you are arguing, but there is no conflict between the concept of Natural Rights and the idea that Government properly involves a social compact. Our Declaration of Independence makes the points required for clarity. The confusion arises merely because it is endlessly quoted out of context, by those with an axe to grind, but all too seldom actually read. One thing, it most certainly is not, is an argument for egalitarianism, license, majority rule, etc.. On the other hand, its logic clearly implies a doctrine that requires fair administration of the laws, without favoritism for special interests or cronies or militant groups, on behalf of all members of the particular society that is party to the compact.

William Flax

478 posted on 05/20/2003 4:03:38 PM PDT by Ohioan
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To: Zack Nguyen
"The Human Rights Campaign is not the KKK"
But membership in either will get you a one way ticket to hell.
479 posted on 05/20/2003 4:04:48 PM PDT by BOOTSTICK
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To: tdadams
Are you seriously going to be this obtuse? In your little world, am I not permitted to surmise conclusions based on what I've seen. Do you not think the woman's summations were a bit sensationalistic?

Obviously not and I have good reason for my position. Not only have I searched the internet for other comments on this book, which, btw, none of the search results support your position, I've seen the tactics mentioned in the book right here on FR.

Do I think you're being a bit sensationalistic? You betcha. As I previously stated, I've fallen for the facts, the same facts you try to deny without any evidence whatsoever.

480 posted on 05/20/2003 4:06:51 PM PDT by scripter
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