Methodist Bishop On Terrorism and "Jesus Will NOT Come Again" (It's hard to go to Church...)

Michael's Sword ^ | a little old, but some updates, 2001 and 2003 | Michael L. Gonzalez

[rface]

C. Joseph Sprague, currently in the position of bishop in the UMC Northern Illinois Conference, spoke as a self-professed representative of protestant Christianity at a public panel discussion on war and peace on Sunday evening, October 28, 2001. The Panelists, which included representatives of other world religions, as well as many people in the audience found Mr. Sprague's extreme pacifism as a laughing matter, as he was the only panelist who expressed non-support of the U.S. military action against the Taliban and Osama bin Laden. When an audience participant pressed Mr. Sprague to explain how he would stop terrorists from further murders in America and throughout the world, he couldn't propose a solution, but rather could only criticize the United States for a foreign policy that has resulted in deaths of Muslims in past years. In a feeble attempt to imply that there is a better way to deal with world terrorism, Mr. Sprague gave lip service to the United Nations with a vague reference to an international world court.

Mr. Sprague's pacifist position was not "breaking news" at the panel discussion, as he had previously publicized his criticism of America's war on terrorism. However, the unexpected news item from the event was Mr. Sprague's complete break from United Methodist doctrine concerning the Second Coming of our Lord and Savior. During the extremely brief question and answer period, Mr. Sprague responded to the question "When will Jesus come?" In his response -- in what is believed to be his first such public declaration on this matter -- Mr. Sprague said clearly and concisely that Jesus walked the earth about 2000 years ago and that he will NOT come again, as there will be no Second Coming!

The panel discussion titled "An Interfaith Dialogue On War and Peace" was held before at packed Sanctuary estimated at almost 600 people at the First United Methodist Church in Glen Ellyn, Illinois, a western suburb of Chicago. The audience represented the diversity of the American populace with as many people of Arab descent present in the building as those of European descent. The event was organized by UMC Reverend Diana M. Facemyer of Glen Ellyn's St. Thomas UMC, who acted as the host of the event......

There's more if you want it....HERE

also:

Bishop C. Joseph Sprague (click to learn some more...)

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

I suggest you look for a sect wherein the leaders not only talk the talk, but do their durndest to walk the walk...and encourage their parishioners to follow in the footsteps of Christ. Don't stay in a flock guarded by wolves.

[scott7278]

"What's the difference between a Unitarian and a United Methodist Church service?"

I don't know the difference between the services, but the Unitarians deny the doctrine of the Trinity -- an ancient Arian heresy. The nature of the argument deals with same substance (homo ousion: Trinitarians) vs. like substance (homoi ousion: Arians).

Trinitarians hold that the Son of God, though a distinct person, is of the same nature, essence, and being of the Father -- eternally begotten (not created). Arians believed that the Father created the Son, and that the Son is subordinate to the Father.

This controversy is what brought the Council of Nicea together in 325 A.D. -- this brought about the Nicene Creed, which reflects the basic beliefs of Catholicism, Protestantism, and Eastern Orthodoxy. Homo ousion (same substance) prevailed.

[scott7278]

"Leaving the Methodist Church was the best thing I have ever done since I found a church that preaches the Bible not liberalism."

This is what it's all about.

[Bob Eimiller]

I had a friend who about 30 years ago was in a Methodist church in Flint Mich. and I believe he said the pastor didn't believe in the virgin birth of Jesus. Methodism has some kind of element internally that seems to lean toward heresy.

[Republic]

While your at it-get your church and other Methodist Churches OUT of the National Council of Churches. It is a communist organization overloaded with socialists, pacifists, communists, homosexuals and is so PC it no longer relates to Methodist doctrine, whatsoever. Get your church to stop contributing-we left because ours would not.

[M Kehoe]

Tell Mr. Sprague that most of the predictions of Jesus (e.g. the Temple destruction, "you will be persecuted for my name," His church, etc.) have come true (along with many Old Testament predictions).

"Blessed are they who believe, but have not seen."

I'm glad I'm not an atheist, because He will return.

5.56mm

[kevao]

Methodislamist.

[toddst]

10-4, will do what I can.

[Krodg]

I should have waited to post my earlier comment as it turns out I was incorrect. It was a Presbyterian at a woman's Re-Imaging conference. The event happened several years ago and caused such an outrage that is brought up quite often.

I recently had a discussion with my Methodist friend about her woman pastor and that stuck in my mind.

Sounds like I'm coming down on both denominations now, but I don't mean to. There are bad influences in every church...We need to stick to the Word of God.

[Old Professer]

Mainstream churches have long passed the mission of saving souls - it doesn't pay all that well.

[AnAmericanMother]

Spong isn't my bishop (for which I thank God, fasting). Actually, at this point he's nobody's bishop, which is a good thing.

The problem with the Episcopal Church in America is that nobody's in charge. The Presiding Bishop doesn't really have that much power over the other bishops, so when one really goes off the rails (and into the pond) like Spong, there's not much that can be done. A letter of censure would be about it, I don't think he can be defrocked, or at least it's almost impossible.

I look to my local bishop (he's a new man and I'm reserving judgment for the moment until I learn more about him) and my rector. At the moment, they seem to be doing all right, but if the national church takes a position in favor of non-traditional "marriage" (or the ordination of practicing homosexuals), we're gone.

[AnAmericanMother]

Unitarians deny the doctrine of the Trinity

I'm afraid it's worse than that. The Unitarians merged with the Unitarians, and their offspring believes as follows:

Do some UUs have different beliefs than other UUs?
They certainly do. Since individual freedom of belief is one of our basic principles, it follows that there will be differing beliefs among us. Found in today's churches are humanism, agnosticism, atheism, theism, liberal Christianity, neo-paganism and earth spiritualism. These beliefs are not mutually exclusive--it's possible to hold more than one. While we are bound by a set of common principles, we leave it to the individual to decide what particular beliefs lead to those principles.

Do you believe in God?
We do not have a defined doctrine of God. Members are free to develop individual concepts of God that are meaningful to them. They are also free to reject the term and concept altogether.

Most of us do not believe in a supernatural, supreme being who can directly intervene in and alter human life or the mechanism of the natural world. Many believe in a spirit of life or a power within themselves, which some choose to call God.

In other words, they don't believe in ANYTHING.

More of this drivel here, should you feel masochistic today.

It's generally accepted in this neck of the woods (GA) that the UUs are not a religion - they're just a liberal social action organization that gets together once a week to pat each other on the back.

[AnAmericanMother]

I'm sorry - they merged with the UNIVERSALISTS.

These people make my head spin (vomiting pea soup is next . . . . :-D )

[scott7278]

Thank you for the link -- although I should be shocked, I'm not. Any denomination that rejects one of the basic tenants of Christianity will inevitably head in this direction.

It is funny, though, that they claim to have no creed and then proceed to give a whole page dedicated to their "no creed" creed. I thought it was particularly funny that some in their midst argue against the historicity of Jesus Christ -- that's poor 19th century German scholarship. No serious scholar, even in that century (and no matter how radical) would dare make such a claim.

[Salvation]

**spoke as a self-professed representative of protestant Christianity**

At least the Pope is selected by a group of Cardinals through the intercession of the Holy Spirit! No 'self-proclaiming' about it!

[Twinkie]

As long as we have the written Scriptures, the Word of
God, in the hands of just plain down to earth people
instead of it being held captive by "religious elite
hierarchy", we are safe. Thank God for it and for Truth
being in the hands of the masses if they'll only read it.
We need it in order to avoid wolves in sheeps' clothing.

[AnAmericanMother]

I thought it was particularly funny that some in their midst argue against the historicity of Jesus Christ

. . . LOL, guess they don't have to believe in Tacitus either.

This whole foolishness about Christ being "one of many great human teachers" is so much nonsense if you read the Bible. As C.S. Lewis said, if you had asked Buddha, "Are you the Son of God?" he would have replied, "My son, you are still in the vale of illusion." Christ, asked the same question, responded, "I Am, and you will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven." The things He said were such (as C.S. Lewis said) that he was crazy (along the lines of a man who thinks he's a poached egg), or a demon, or the Son of God. You can lock him up for a madman, or reject him as a demon, or fall down and worship him. But you can't pass him off with namby-pamby nonsense about a Great Human Teacher. He didn't leave us that alternative.

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

You have my sympathy. Well, luck to you. Keep your powder dry.