Ron Silver: "The end of my days as a prominent liberal"

DITO

And welcome to FreeRepublic.

101 posted on 04/12/2003 2:59:25 PM PDT by Cacique

I basically agree with your analysis. If you accept Christ, you're in, even if you're a "stone."

If you don't, you're out, even if you have the pure blood of Judah running through your veins.

Yes, you're right about the "mixed ethnicity" of the Jews. The Ashkenazim are probably more eastern European than Hebrew, and there are Arab Jews, African Jews, etc.

And finally, "Jew" means "Southern Kingdom of Judah," which was almost all Judah and some of Benjamin and some Levites.

That is NOT all of Israel (I always thought they should have named their new, U.N.-created state "Judah," to be more consistent). Israel has been scattered abroad, and they are all being gathered again (okay, my "Mormon" doctrine is showing).

As an Ephraimite, I submit that I, too, have a stake in all this. And as I HAVE accepted Christ, I think I'm in the "in crowd."

102 posted on 04/12/2003 4:04:43 PM PDT by Illbay

It isn't about "God backing out," it's about the various tribes of Israel--including but not limited to the Jews--not holding up their end of the bargain.

He NEVER said that He would save them unconditionally, never. Three-fourths of the Old Testament is the record of a people who worshipped idols of wood and stone, killed the prophets, committed adultery, murders and all manner of wickedness, and in short did EVERYTHING but keep their covenant.

For that, they were destroyed as a people.

Then, the Lord set Himself ONE MORE TIME to save them, and the Messiah came. Many, many of the Jews of that day, and many of the Lord's "other sheep" scattered throughout the earth (whose records don't appear in the Bible) accepted Him.

Many others did not.

They chose, and if they chose wrongly, they were rejected.

There is not one shred of evidence you can come up with that says that if you're born a Jew in this day and age, you're automatically "chosen," unless you want to ignore what the prophets of the Old Testament, and Messiah himself, said.

You have to reject the Bible.

This is a modern day false-teaching, and is but one more example of how most fundy Christians don't have a single clue about what the Bible really says.

103 posted on 04/12/2003 4:09:39 PM PDT by Illbay

104 posted on 04/12/2003 4:10:00 PM PDT by Illbay

And welcome to FreeRepublic.

Thankyou. I'm the classic lurker (5 or so years?) but I couldn't sit on the sidelne during the discussion of this war. Of course, my first post was only mildly humorous and not very significant . I don't know why I felt compelled to post on the thread that I did, but I knew that I was taking the step of signing up, so I might as well post something lighthearted to begin. I'm still not sure anybody got it, or even saw it.

In all seriousness, I firmly believe that this is a turning point in history. If we pull this off (the whole battle with the axis of evil, including world terrorism) then we will have saved human civilization. If we fail then the literal battle of Armegeddon is upon us. I can't think of a better place to compare and contrast views than here. I'm glad Free Republic and the freepers are here.

105 posted on 04/12/2003 4:11:09 PM PDT by Phsstpok

And finally, "Jew" means "Southern Kingdom of Judah," which was almost all Judah and some of Benjamin and some Levites.

There were undoubtedly a great many Israelites of other tribes who immigrated to the southern kingdom over the centuries they existed together. Especially during the most severe times of apostasy in the North, and when the Northern Kingdom was in the process of collapsing. Members of losing political factions in the north would also have good reason to emigrate.

So I suspect by the time the Southern Knigdom fell, there were a lot more than just members of the tribes of Judah, Benjamin and Levi living there.

106 posted on 04/12/2003 4:14:23 PM PDT by Restorer (TANSTAAFL)

I've been saying this too. My distinct impression is that we have dodged the end of civilization by a hairsbreadth. If Algore had managed to pull off that election, we'd be facing either slavery or the wrong end of a nuclear weapon by now.

107 posted on 04/12/2003 4:16:16 PM PDT by Scothia (If you pray for rain, prepare to deal with some mud.)

Silver is very good as a bad alien in "The Arrival."

It's always been one of my favorite good bad films. Now it's better!

Well, that explains hippiecrat socialists. They're from the Araxian Galaxy. (I really liked this movie too.)

108 posted on 04/12/2003 4:19:28 PM PDT by Scothia (If you pray for rain, prepare to deal with some mud.)

To: Blue Scourge

I'm "pro-Israel" insofar as I believe they have a right to exist (which many don't).

But I am above all, pro-United States of America. I am all for helping our friends, and punishing our enemies.

I do not like France, but they have a right to exist. I do not like Germany, but they have a right to exist. I am ambivalent about Israel--because some of the things they've done have been harmful to the U.S. interests, and some have been helpful--but they have a right to exist.

But it has nothing to do with religion.

109 posted on 04/12/2003 4:27:17 PM PDT by Illbay

I'm sure that's true, but the main point is that Judah did NOT represent all of Israel.

110 posted on 04/12/2003 4:39:32 PM PDT by Illbay

111 posted on 04/12/2003 4:42:46 PM PDT by ambrose

To add a little more to the discussion:

KJ:Galations 3:26-29: "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek (explanation: Greek meaning Gentile), there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

KJ:Ephesians 2:8-13: "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands. That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

Finally, Galations 2:19-20: "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God. And are build upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone."

112 posted on 04/12/2003 4:57:23 PM PDT by lilylangtree

Conservative: A Liberal who finally realizes freedom isn't free, nor is there any such thing as a free lunch.

Welcome aboard, Ron!

-Regards, T.

113 posted on 04/12/2003 5:13:36 PM PDT by T Lady (.Freed From the Dimocratic Shackles since 1992)

To: Elsie; Restorer; Illbay

Maybe "chosen" doesn't mean automatically saved. I'm no Bible expert but I don't think Jesus came to undo the Old Testament, he came to fulfill it ----but he didn't unchoose the chosen people. Jesus chose some apostles too ---but they wouldn't necessarily be saved ---like Judas. Even the New Testament talks about rebuilding Jerusalem.

114 posted on 04/12/2003 5:28:17 PM PDT by FITZ

Please see post 92. A lot of people seem to disagree with it, but nobody has attempted to disprove it.

115 posted on 04/12/2003 5:34:48 PM PDT by Restorer (TANSTAAFL)

This is a modern day false-teaching, and is but one more example of how most fundy Christians don't have a single clue about what the Bible really says.

Anyhow I'm not a fundy Christian. (Catholic which is the other reason I don't know everything the Bible says).

116 posted on 04/12/2003 5:38:32 PM PDT by FITZ

.....and they are all being gathered again (okay, my "Mormon" doctrine is showing).

Not so 'Mormon', it's Scriptural.....................

NIV Nehemiah 1:8-9
8. "Remember the instruction you gave your servant Moses, saying, `If you are unfaithful, I will scatter you among the nations,
9. but if you return to me and obey my commands, then even if your exiled people are at the farthest horizon, I will gather them from there and bring them to the place I have chosen as a dwelling for my Name.'

NIV Isaiah 35:1-10

1. The desert and the parched land will be glad; the wilderness will rejoice and blossom. Like the crocus,
2. it will burst into bloom; it will rejoice greatly and shout for joy. The glory of Lebanon will be given to it, the splendor of Carmel and Sharon; they will see the glory of the LORD, the splendor of our God.
3. Strengthen the feeble hands, steady the knees that give way;
4. say to those with fearful hearts, "Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you."
5. Then will the eyes of the blind be opened and the ears of the deaf unstopped.
6. Then will the lame leap like a deer, and the mute tongue shout for joy. Water will gush forth in the wilderness and streams in the desert.
7. The burning sand will become a pool, the thirsty ground bubbling springs. In the haunts where jackals once lay, grass and reeds and papyrus will grow.
8. And a highway will be there; it will be called the Way of Holiness. The unclean will not journey on it; it will be for those who walk in that Way; wicked fools will not go about on it.
9. No lion will be there, nor will any ferocious beast get up on it; they will not be found there. But only the redeemed will walk there,
10. and the ransomed of the LORD will return. They will enter Zion with singing; everlasting joy will crown their heads. Gladness and joy will overtake them, and sorrow and sighing will flee away.

NIV Jeremiah 31:1-17
1. "At that time," declares the LORD, "I will be the God of all the clans of Israel, and they will be my people."
2. This is what the LORD says: "The people who survive the sword will find favor in the desert; I will come to give rest to Israel."
3. The LORD appeared to us in the past, saying: "I have loved you with an everlasting love; I have drawn you with loving-kindness.
4. I will build you up again and you will be rebuilt, O Virgin Israel. Again you will take up your tambourines and go out to dance with the joyful.
5. Again you will plant vineyards on the hills of Samaria; the farmers will plant them and enjoy their fruit.
6. There will be a day when watchmen cry out on the hills of Ephraim, `Come, let us go up to Zion, to the LORD our God.'"
7. This is what the LORD says: "Sing with joy for Jacob; shout for the foremost of the nations. Make your praises heard, and say, `O LORD, save your people, the remnant of Israel.'
8. See, I will bring them from the land of the north and gather them from the ends of the earth. Among them will be the blind and the lame, expectant mothers and women in labor; a great throng will return.
9. They will come with weeping; they will pray as I bring them back. I will lead them beside streams of water on a level path where they will not stumble, because I am Israel's father, and Ephraim is my firstborn son.
10. "Hear the word of the LORD, O nations; proclaim it in distant coastlands: `He who scattered Israel will gather them and will watch over his flock like a shepherd.'
11. For the LORD will ransom Jacob and redeem them from the hand of those stronger than they.
12. They will come and shout for joy on the heights of Zion; they will rejoice in the bounty of the LORD-- the grain, the new wine and the oil, the young of the flocks and herds. They will be like a well-watered garden, and they will sorrow no more.
13. Then maidens will dance and be glad, young men and old as well. I will turn their mourning into gladness; I will give them comfort and joy instead of sorrow.
14. I will satisfy the priests with abundance, and my people will be filled with my bounty," declares the LORD.
15. This is what the LORD says: "A voice is heard in Ramah, mourning and great weeping, Rachel weeping for her children and refusing to be comforted, because her children are no more."
16. This is what the LORD says: "Restrain your voice from weeping and your eyes from tears, for your work will be rewarded," declares the LORD. "They will return from the land of the enemy.
17. So there is hope for your future," declares the LORD. "Your children will return to their own land.

NIV Jeremiah 50:19
But I will bring Israel back to his own pasture and he will graze on Carmel and Bashan; his appetite will be satisfied on the hills of Ephraim and Gilead.

NIV Ezekiel 11:16-17
16. "Therefore say: `This is what the Sovereign LORD says: Although I sent them far away among the nations and scattered them among the countries, yet for a little while I have been a sanctuary for them in the countries where they have gone.'
17. "Therefore say: `This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will gather you from the nations and bring you back from the countries where you have been scattered, and I will give you back the land of Israel again.'

NIV Hosea 3:4-5
4. For the Israelites will live many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred stones, without ephod or idol.
5. Afterward the Israelites will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They will come trembling to the LORD and to his blessings in the last days.

NIV Zechariah 8:1-8
1. Again the word of the LORD Almighty came to me.
2. This is what the LORD Almighty says: "I am very jealous for Zion; I am burning with jealousy for her."
3. This is what the LORD says: "I will return to Zion and dwell in Jerusalem. Then Jerusalem will be called the City of Truth, and the mountain of the LORD Almighty will be called the Holy Mountain."
4. This is what the LORD Almighty says: "Once again men and women of ripe old age will sit in the streets of Jerusalem, each with cane in hand because of his age.
5. The city streets will be filled with boys and girls playing there."
6. This is what the LORD Almighty says: "It may seem marvelous to the remnant of this people at that time, but will it seem marvelous to me?" declares the LORD Almighty.
7. This is what the LORD Almighty says: "I will save my people from the countries of the east and the west.
8. I will bring them back to live in Jerusalem; they will be my people, and I will be faithful and righteous to them as their God."

NIV Zechariah 10:9-10
9. Though I scatter them among the peoples, yet in distant lands they will remember me. They and their children will survive, and they will return.
10. I will bring them back from Egypt and gather them from Assyria. I will bring them to Gilead and Lebanon, and there will not be room enough for them.

And, in 1948, this 'ingathering' started as the Balfore agreement finally set aside the sparsely populated land for the returning Jews. President Truman was the first to sign, recognizing ISRAEL as a country.

PS - I consider myself a Bible Fundamentalist

117 posted on 04/12/2003 5:42:55 PM PDT by Elsie (Don't believe every prophecy you read - ESPECIALLY *** ones)

I'm no expert ---but I always thought Jesus came and included Gentiles in with the chosen people but that he didn't come to change anyone's status who already was chosen. Still on an individual basis we can accept or reject God. I believe Jesus is God ---so if someone accepts God they still might be okay with God ---even if they didn't get it completely right.

118 posted on 04/12/2003 5:43:33 PM PDT by FITZ

.....Lord's "other sheep" scattered throughout the earth (whose records don't appear in the Bible) accepted Him.

Now THIS is Mormon Doctrine!

119 posted on 04/12/2003 5:44:39 PM PDT by Elsie (Don't believe every prophecy you read - ESPECIALLY *** ones)

Hey guys... check out the NEW Homepage look JR has given us!

Cool!!

120 posted on 04/12/2003 5:46:45 PM PDT by Elsie (Don't believe every prophecy you read - ESPECIALLY *** ones)

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