Lynch Shot Iraqi Soldiers

The Washington Post ^ | April 3, 2003 | Susan Schmidt and Vernon Loeb

[John H K]

Pfc. Jessica Lynch, rescued Tuesday from an Iraqi hospital, fought fiercely and shot several enemy soldiers after Iraqi forces ambushed the Army's 507th Ordnance Maintenance Company, firing her weapon until she ran out of ammunition, U.S. officials said yesterday.

[Maximum Leader]

I agree it's not a "nice" assumption, but if every POW (and we're talking about a supply clerk, not an infantryman or a Special Op operator) who said they fought like they didn't want to be captured alive had, there would be a lot fewer POWs captured alive (granted, there haven't been large numbers of non-aviator POWs captured since the Korean war).

From studies S.L.A Marshall conducted during World War II, only 25% of soldiers in battle, even in the most extreme circumstances, ever pull the trigger. I know there has been a lot of debate in recent years about Marshall's methodalogy, but it's unusual for a green soldier to shoot and keep shooting until they run out of ammo and then be captured alive.

I'm not calling her a liar, how we remember things that happen under extreme stress is not always what really happened. I do hope the evidence proves my assumption wrong, I really do, but I'd like to see what other evidence the Army has that things played out that way.

[The FRugitive]

Wow. God Bless PFC Lynch.

[briant]

I didn't realize that this thread was here simply to fling flowers of worship upon a poor soul whose main accomplishment was getting lost.

Well, that probably wasn't her fauly. If it was it wasn't, if you know what I mean. At some point there was supposedly a Captain with that group and some NCO's.

[stands2reason]

Okay, how's this. You don't have to be a feminazi to feel pride in the job she did. Is that better? Will you respond now?

[freepersup]

more likely she didn't

Why is it 'more likely she didn't' fight to the death, when several of her co-combatants were either killed outright or mortally wounded ? This scenario isn't enough of a motivation to fight to the death ?

She is sporting two broken legs, a broken arm, two gun shot wounds in her leg/s, and a stab wound. Somehow this indicates something other than a fight to the death ?

You said:

probably raped- (possibly)
definitely tortured- (confirmed)
Audie Murphy performance- (slam)
likely suffers survivor guilt- (possibly)
why is she alive and all of her comrades dead? (are they)

It's interesting that you were able to interpret all of this from the W Post article.

Yet, when faced with obvious physical evidence,

3 broken limbs
2 gunshot wounds
1 stab wound

Jessica's credibility is questioned ?

You said: I'm not sure how well Army basic training prepares its future supply clerks and cooks for ambushes.

My reply: Looks like the Army did one hell of a job preparing this soldier for ambushes.

Your reply is insulting in so many ways and at so many levels...

Your disrespect for this young lady's recollection of her ordeal doesn't deserve a ping- the very reason for the ping is insulting. An eyewitness ?

The mainstream media couldn't dismiss this soldier's conduct as well as you have.

[briant]

I don't have a problem with that. I was just stating the predictable way this thread would go.

[zook]

Destro says:

Not one here (other than me) questions a Washington Post article with unamed sources on a culture war issue.

And theneanderthal tosses out this gem:

So, where is Shoshauna? Wrong color? Not a picture perfect blonde, suitable for national media exposure?

Both statements make me want to puke. Instead of celebrating the highly probable assertion that this young woman soldier kicked a lot of Iraqi ass, instead of realizing the moral boost stories like these offer, Destro wants to tear the story down.

Neanderthal's statement is pure BS. That young soldier's face (Shoshauna's) has been on TV regularly, deservedly so, to the point where I pray for her every night.

Chirac's statement about some people missing good opportunities to be quiet seems quite apt here.

[briant]

So, where is Shoshauna? Wrong color? Not a picture perfect blonde, suitable for national media exposure?

And if she had been rescued someone would have implied it was an "affirmative action rescue". And I thought I was cynical lol.

[stands2reason]

I have no doubt that this Audie Murphy performance is exactly how she remembers the ambush.

According to the article this wasn't "her account."

[KayEyeDoubleDee]

We got girls that can beat your Muslim *ss!!

JohnHuang2, dude, can you say "Quote of the Week"?

[FirstTomato]

Your whole argument is predicated on your assumption of accomplishments. So what did this woman do to attract such adoration?

She got lost. She became a POW.

That, in my opinion, is not enough to make her a hero. I think "hero" is used too fast and loose in our society.

The real question is, why does it bother you so much that I disagree with you?

You think she's a hero--fine. I don't.

My little dissenting voice evidently has some people very upset.

[wardaddy]

Don't worry ...emotive reasoning rules these threads.

FR is pretty PC about chicks and other stuff.

[patriciaruth]

blowing the head off another teenager, evil-doer though he may be, is not something I would want for my daughter nor society.

So, we should let evil-doers run rampant? Or just wishfully not want this?

[zook]

Well, then stay tuned. I'm sure there will be a suitable number of graves for you to do p1ss on. Enjoy.

Well said! I'm getting sick of the little handful of piccolo dickos around here who can't appreciate this story.

[freebilly]

Bronze Star, at least.

My father earned two Bronze Stars. This is a Silver....

[LenS]

And if America does begin to celebrate stories of girls in combat I will leave.

Bye-bye!

Of course, coming from a poster who denies Serbs ever raped anyone in Bosnia and who thinks that all the girls sexually assaulted at the Air Force Academy were just covering up the fact that they wanted sex, your reaction here is totally predictable.

[Maximum Leader]

I absolutely do not thinks she's lying, as I noted in the original post "I have no doubt that this Audie Murphy performance is exactly how she remembers the ambush."

I'm a lawyer, not a military man so I don't have any first hand knowledge of combat. I do know that witnesses who are placed in an unexpected, stressful situation do not have perfect recall and will remember things that didn't happen for psychological reasons.

How many men have been convicted of rape because of the victim's absolute certainty that he was the one... only to be released when DNA establishes to a certainty that he wasn't the assailant?

Or, unfortunately more relevant to this event, how many rape victims submit to the attack with the knife to their throat and then report (and honestly remember) that they fought back as hard as they physically could?

As a legal matter, the rapist is just as guilty either way and the victim is completely without fault, but the victim will remember they fought back because its human nature to want to think one did everything they could to stop something bad.

At any rate, PFC. Lynch may have kept fighting until she ran out of ammo, I'm just saying its more likely she did not. I hope I'm wrong and I hope the Army produces evidence supporting her memory of the events.

[ApesForEvolution]

Depressed about a woman fighting in combat, yes - doing her job and defending herself, no. A society that has nothing better for women to do than fight wars is a sign of a sick society. That hasn't changed.

[patriciaruth]

How's it going, TalibanTomato?

You never did answer what age you felt it would be allowable for a "girl" to leave her "Daddy."

[Arkinsaw]

My little dissenting voice evidently has some people very upset.

No. I am actually against women in combat roles. Your dissenting voice on this particular thread doesn't make me upset politically, it makes me ill at the inappropriateness of it. I'm sorry that someone with this level of inappropriate behavior is on my side politically.

Just as the "anti-war" protestors do not realize that throwing up on Federal building steps is more damaging to their cause than helpful to it you don't realize that throwing up on this thread makes all of us who are opposed to women in combat associated with the stench.